[MR] The SCA as a "joke"

[logan]

apparently you did not read what i wrote.  i will attempt to summarize.

"a reasonable attempt" is the battle cry of people, such as yourself, that
disagree with what i have said.  first, i have never suggested that the sca
become a strictly authentic organization.  never.  i have suggested that we
make, uh oh, a "reasonable attempt".  now tell me what attempt at pre 1600
items are exposed plastic barrels, gorms nylon coleman chair, blue jeans,
tennis shoes, or anything else that i specifically have mentioned?  there is
no attempt at all.

and no, ive never had a freon can (i only played for 12 years) and none of
my armor was modern until i was in for a few years.  then it was all
covered.  and yes i had a few short sleeved tunics.  i have since thrown
them away of had long sleeves put in them and gave them away.  but again,
that has never been my point.

and, i never said that the sca was a joke.  what i said was the statement
that the sca is a living history group is a joke.  the sca claims, in its
charter, that it is a living history group, an educational group and it
requires its participants to make a "reasonable attempt".  yet it fails at
all of these things and there is, for some bizarre reason, an effort to
ignore those simple requirements.

sorry to hear that you had some problems with hospitality in your area.  not
sure that has anything to do with this topic though.



look, it boils down to a few simple facts.  one of those is that so many
people in the sca like to react emotionally to things they do not, on the
surface, agree with.  they attack the author and not the message. to date a
few people have disagreed with what i have said on this topic and every one
of them has made claims about me wanting to have everyone live up to my
level of authenticity, or that i expect exact period techniques and
materials.  obviously none of them have actually read what i have written.
not a surprise, its fairly common.  the big thing that is lacking in all of
these retorts is an argument against what i have suggested.  i have only
suggested that the rules that are in place in the charter of the sca be
followed.  why there are people that take the option to join an organization
and then refuse to follow its rules is beyond me.  do you guys smoke in non
smoking sections?  of course not.  just because there is no fear of being
thrown out of an event for drinking out of a mello yello bottle doesnt mean
we should spit on or ignore the rules.  that is the point.  not what i want
to see.  frankly it doesnt really matter to me and its not my problem any
longer.  i am only addressing it because i signed a check a few months ago
and i support what we did.



so please, if anyone else wishes to step up and trumpet the greatness of
coleman chairs or the impossibility of taking the field in anything but
exposed plastic and tennis shoes also include why you think its ok to refuse
to follow the rules.  perhaps the rules should be changed.  until they are
why should you (general statement) be above them?  few other organizations
would cater to such active disregard.



regards
logan

-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of egeorges
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 10:17 AM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [MR] The SCA as a "joke"


Your Grace Logan, I think your comments are somewhat off the mark.

First off, if a person wants relentless authenticity right down to thier
underpants, there are any number of medieval living history groups to
accommodate them.  And yes, some of the people who are in those groups like
to sneer at scadians because we tolerate and emphasize a "reasonable
attempt" at pre-1600 clothing, as opposed to hand sewing every bit of a very
specific 14th century kit from a very specific military regiment in France.
Many of the folks in my barony play both with living history groups and with
the SCA.  And they understand and appreciate the difference between those
groups and the SCA.

What is the difference?  The SCA has a long and noble tradition of making
itself accessible to as many people as it can while still living up to its
educational purpose.  The SCA has long held the idea that it shouldn't be so
difficult to have this kind of fun.  That's why we emphasize a "reasonable
attempt" at pre-1600 clothing.  That's why people squawk when the membership
fees go up.  Yes we are (and have always been) more of the mind that this
should be fun.  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  As a local
Chatelaine, I can tell you one of the principal obstacles that we face with
a newcomer is not that we are "not authentic enough," but that the struggle
to know what's authentic and what isn't is overwhelming to someone who up
until now knew nothing more about the period than the dubious "fact" that
Henry VIII liked to carry around a turkey leg.  The fact that we have a
rather complicated social structure and awards system on top of all that
just makes it more difficult.  My personal belief is that it is hard enough
to retain newcomers without creating more and more "barriers to entry" for
them.

The truth of the matter is, that the #1 and #2 reason that people stop
playing in the SCA are "too much time" and "too much politics" (this based
on a survey taken by the Kingdom Chatelaine last year).  In other words, the
time and effort to be fairly authentic actually works against our thriving
as a group.  You want to have 2,000 men in armor at Pennsic at the fort
battle?  Be prepared to make some concessions.

Kiri is right.  If you look at the difference between now and even ten years
ago, our overall authenticity level has gone up.  But everyone starts
somewhere.  Most of the Knights in Atlantia (including you, I am sure) have
a freon can and a T-tunic in their past.  It takes time to develop the
capability to produce truly authentic period clothing, or even clothing that
looks really period.  Many of our newcomers have never threaded a sewing
machine, or worked metal in their lives.  I certainly hadn't when I joined
the SCA.

I will agree, that some people do push the bleeding edge of what could be
considered a "reasonable attempt" at period clothing.  I also agree that a
player who has committed 10+ years to the game and can't be bothered to don
something other than blue jeans is demonstrating a remarkable disdain for
the goals of the group.  However, the answer to this problem is NOT to make
lots and lots of detailed rules that wind up confusing and intimidating
people, and making publicly disdainful remaks about the SCA being a "joke."
The answer is to do better at providing resources (both in knowledge and
access to materials), and for more senior members of the group to set an
example in this effort.  (I am glad to hear that you make an effort to do so
with folks in your local group.)   It should be a matter of honor for
long-time players to try and set an example for others in the authenticity
of their game, not a matter of making rules. That's never been our way.
Making more rules and then sitting back and complaining that no one is
following them is a cop out, because you are making it someone else's job to
live up to your standards.  You are also placing an unfair burden on the
newcomer and denying him the opportunity you had to grow into your current
level of authenticity. (please note I am using a general, not a personal
"you" here).

The living history folks in my barony are all fairly new, having gotten
started in the SCA about a year or so ago.  Many had tried to play in the
SCA before, and had given up on it.  Ironically, it was NOT because of the
lack of authenticity, but the lack of hospitality.  That alone should tell
you something.

Luce Antony Venus
Chatelaine, Ponte Alto


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