[MR] curiosity plastic armor question

[Ginny Barnett]

I think His Grace, Duke Logan, has shown us how easy it is to
misunderstand messages when you are expecting a certain kind
of response.  Duke Logan answered Lord Gorm's message as
though Lord Gorm had extolled the virtues of plastic, derided
steel, and disagreed vociferously and entirely with both the
concept and the letter of the cover-the-armor rule.

In fact, Lord Gorm simply said that *he* liked plastic and
intended to continue using it himself.  He did not advocate
anyone else using it.  He also implied that steel is an
upgrade from plastic and certainly more period.

Regarding the cover-the-armor rule, he did not say he was
"against requiring people to follow the rules that the charter
of the sca has had in place for so many years."  He referred
to the SCA rule that people must make *an attempt* at wearing
medieval garb.  Far from arguing against the cover-the-armor
rule, he stated that he understood the desire to improve.
He proposed other ways, some of which were very creative,
of achieving the same effect via peer pressure, rather than
laying down a fiat.

Lord Gorm also implied that, up until this time, marshals
checked armor only for safety, and now, in addition to
safety, they must check for (reasonable) historical accuracy
and proper coverage of modern-looking items.  He's worried
that new fighters who have made an honest effort to cover
up will be asked to leave the field not because they're not
safe but because their effort wasn't good enough.

Lord Gorm rightly pointed out that no other activity in the
SCA allows a contestant to be prevented from competing because
his effort wasn't good enough.  Duke Logan rightly countered
that combat has different rules.  However, previously, the
majority of the rules for combat were based on a desire for
better safety, not better appearance.  Requiring better
appearance during combat is, as Lord Gorm states, comparable
to requiring better garb before being allowed to compete in a
metalcasting competition.  Separate rules for appearance
(between combat and everything else) are puzzling to me.

My opinion is probably irrelevant since I'm not a fighter, but
I believe that using plastic should be a safety question, not
an appearance question.  If it's safe, then anybody should be
able to use it for as long as they want.

Covering modern items, including plastic, is a separate issue
altogether.  Things that are modern, whether safe or not, and
whether plastic or not, must be covered.  That's solely an
appearance question, and we Scadians should do everything we
can to encourage more period appearance in everything we do.
I don't think appearance on the battlefield should be
mandated, but now that it has been, we must help our fighters
follow the rule.  I suppose rules can be rescinded, but until
that should happen, we must follow them.

-- Bethoc ingen Alpin
(Below messages are clipped to the most pertinent parts.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "logan" <dukelogan at bellsouth.net>
To: "'Gorm of Berra'" <gormofberra at direcway.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 9:22 PM

| gorm if you are going to make comparisons please make
| them equitable.  many arts and sciences competitions
| have parameters, guidelines or rules.  they are not,
| however, combat.  different rules apply to different
| aspects of the sca.  the rules for participation on the
| field are in place and, like all rules, are to be adhered
to.
|
| people would like to suggest that without plastic nobody
| can fight, especially new people.  disproved.   takes too
| much skill to produce armor out of non-plastic.  also
| proven false.  takes too many tools to [use] period styled
| materials.  again, false.  leather takes the fewest.  it
costs
| [too much] money coupled with i am poor and cant even
| afford food.  priorities out of line but, nonetheless, also
| incorrect.
|
| gorm, let me ask you why you seem to be so against
| requiring people to follow the rules that the charter
| of the sca has had in place for so many years that are
| now clearly defined in atlantia.  in order to attend an
| event you are expected to behave a certain way and to
| dress a certain way.  do you suggest that participating
| on the field somehow makes one immune to those
| requirements?
|
| but lets just take the anti effort logic and apply it
| elsewhere.  we arent talking about materials here as the
| new law allows for the inclusion of exposed modern
| materials that are found to be beneficial (such as the
| lamellar kits that noble plastics has created) but simply
| the visual effect.
|
| the sca is, and has been for some time, a social club were
| some people dress up.  but thats not what the charter of
| the organization says.

 logan


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Gorm of Berra
| Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:51 PM
| To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
|
| Assuming you count kydex as plastic ... I like it, and I
| intend to continue using it.
|
| The wonderful thing about the SCA is that members (up
| until 37 days from now) have never been required to be
| put in the position of saying "Your effort isn't good
| enough to compete" before.
|
| If I enter metalcasting in an A&S competition for castings,
| even though the sprue is roughly cut, the pattern I
| copied is from 1850, and my documentation amounts to "I
| saw this on DiY", noone will say "I'm sorry, Gorm, you can't
| enter".
|
| Now, however, our Marshals are being forced to make
| that decision.
|
| Alternatively, why not say "Anyone can fight, but if you
| want to get recognized for fighting you need to have kit
| that is decently period".
|
| Or have the Knights say "Hmmm, you're squire material,
| but your kit needs to be upgraded before I take you as
| a squire"
|
| Or award the prizes for the tournaments to the person
| who exemplifies period fighting styles best, including
| his/her kit?
|
| Or, start doing rules that use "Armor as worn".  full
| gothic plate?  you're immune to singlehanded sword
| blows.
|
| Okay, I understand the desire to make things better,
| but there were *so* many other ways this could have
| been done.  It won't boost our numbers, and it may
| reduce them.  It won't result in better armor, just
| more metal, or more swede covering kydex.  That
| isn't helping.
|
| Gorm