[MR] Re: Follow up report on the combat arrow that hit IstvanToth

[Robert Dawson, PA-C]

Greetings all,

I'm a displaced Atlantian currently stuck in the Mid-realm. I'd like to make
some observations in the interest of rumor control...

> >1) Is it customary to take off one's helm before one leaves the
> >list, if there's combat archery?
>
> It doesn't matter if it is customary or not within his Kingdom, it is
> against SCA rules.  SCA rules state that you shall not remove your helm on
> the field of battle.

Siegfried's right, and no, it's not customary here.  But I've seen a fair
number of fighters over the years in several kingdoms, including Fair
Atlantia, and at Pennsic, pop their tops and then walk to the side lines.
IMO we need to do more to discourage that behavior.  Hopefully this incident
will help raise everyone's awareness.

> So, in this case, one or more of any one of the following SCA rules was
broken:
> A) The guy removed his helm while still on the field of combat

Yes, sort of (see below)

> B) A Marshal didn't see this and call hold immediately

True.  But...

> C) The 'spectator safety zone' was not properly marked, as is required
when
> Combat Archery is in effect, and therefore this guy didn't know he wasn't
> in the safe zone.

No, it was marked, and was a safe distance away.

> >2) Was a hold called, which would mean that shooting stopped? Or
> >was combat still going on?
>
>  From getting more information on this topic from the Society Combat
> Archery Marshal.  No hold.  The fighting was still going on.  Basically,
> this guy was dead, walked over to the 'side' of the bridge, and removed
his
> helm to stand there and watch the fighting.

Ummm, no.  My Lord Siegfried's version above, IMO, paints an inaccurate
picture.  Sjt. Toth was killed on the bridge, he walked apx 50 feet from the
end of the bridge and off at an angle from the corner, turned to watch the
fighting, felt himself to be in a position far enough from the fighting to
be safe, and took off his helmet.  He was not at the side of the bridge,
which I've heard repeated, but he was indeed, not in the spectator area,
either.  However, it is clear, he should not have done that, regardless of
how safe he felt.

> >3) Can erics be set up in such a fashion that allows for the free
> >play of the archers' capabilities and still allow people to enjoy
> >the spectacle?

Certainly.

> In fact, this is required by SCA law (as I mentioned above).  A definite
> 'edge of the battlefield' and 'spectator safety zone' are to be marked
when
> missiles are on the field.
>
> In this case, either it was not done.  Or it was done, and wasn't 'safe
> enough'.  Or is was done, and this guy was knowingly standing inside the
> 'non-safe area'.

It was done, it was safe enough ( in the marshal's opinion) , but, as you
say,  "this guy was knowingly standing inside the 'non-safe area'".

 > I have full sympathy for this guy, the injury he sustained, and pain he
is
> going through.  I do wish him quick recovery.  However, given the facts at
> the moment, it is obvious that this accident was caused by either a
failure
> of the marshals to follow/enforce the rules, this fighter to follow the
> rules, or a combination of both.

I don't think it would be fair to call it a failure by the marshals in this
instance.  Their attention was focused on the fighting before them, not on a
fighter 50 or more feet behind them.  It was an accident.  But it's clear
that it was a potentially avoidable accident.  I think it's necessary for
all of us to be aware of fighters who might remove thier helms too soon.
Perhaps with combat archery/siege weapons there may be a need to have some
'sideline' marshalls watching to prevent this very thing.

regards,

McKenna
Atlantian wanderer