[MR] Triton Speaks on the GoA of the OHM

[David W. James]

On Tuesday, April 22, 2003, at 10:30 AM, Lady Rhiannon of Berra wrote:
> So does this mean that for those people who have
> already received Peerages and the like and just
> recently received Court Baronys and like, these new
> awards not only don't "count", they shouldn't have
> happened?

> I'm confused...

> LadyRhi

That's perfectly reasonable, this particular aspect of the SCA's award
structure has little (ok, 'no') period precedent that I have seen, so
we are just making it up as we go along.

The Laurel ruling means that, yes, they do not currently count if the
person already had a grant or patent.

It can be read as saying that they shouldn't have been given, but here
I have to disagree with both that Laurel and our more recent one
(sorry, Jaelle, I am about to apply logic to the problem...); yes, they
do not count as far as precedence is determined now.  That does not
mean that they may not count in the future.

Lets say that Sir Guiselberti Fallsalot was a subject of the Atlantian
Crown on April 1, who also had a Pearl from some years before.  The
1982 Laurel letter would mean that the grant the Crown wanted to give
him on April 1 would not be listed in the OP, since he already has a
Peerage.

Now, good Sir Fallsalot has some peculiar notions, like say that, as a
knight he has to be able to fight for his king at least as well as his
brother knights.  But he is also getting on in years, and in fact
doesn't fight as well as he once did.  So he decides to resign his
membership in the Order of Chivalry.  He writes his letter to the Crown
and the Board, and at their next meeting the Board says 'OK, you are no
longer a member of the Chivalry.'

Poof!  There goes his patent of arms.  Where does he rank in the OP now?

If the Grant awarded April 1 because he already had a Pearl is not
recorded, things are messy.  Note that the same is also true if he had
also been made a Pelican after his induction into the Chivalry; reading
Laurel's ruling literally, there was no patent of arms with the Laurel.
  In fact, if he resigned the one he would still be acknowledged as a
Peer, as the Laurel always comes with a Patent, even if it didn't get
its own line in the OP.  This is also why I believe we need to list the
'naked grants' given to prior members of the Atlantian orders, without
that listing in the OP there could (will) be some future confusion as
to who got them and who didn't.  And while it is unlikely that this
would be a problem, as Sir Guiselberti's (fictitious) story
illustrates, it is definitely a potential problem.

David/Kwellend-Njal
who still thinks that having three 'layers' of awards is a thing that
should be avoided...