[MR] Re: [AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms

[Logan]

hey i have the entire post of yours (copied below) and i am ready to respond
as well (if anyone is interested on my take on silly 5th grade jokes and
puns and the twist i can put on the current situation).

the deliberate and unjustified slights against her highness and her/our
knowledge of the stupid and juvenile jokes made about atlantias arms aside ,
i am willing to also voice my opinion of her highness, and our desires to
see this blatant and childish behavior smothered  (and any other silly
comments about vaginal euphemisms).

and, i am also willing to debate the fact that if the original (mostly
unknown by people and still very stupid) "pun" is somehow valid and
magically is a slight against atlantia, her queen, and her people,  then so
is the pun that because of it she shaved it...... (or is anyone willing to
debate that as a current joke?)


please let me know how to proceed if you are willing, anyone.

logan

speaking as whatever you want me to speak as but growing very tired of this
already.

>From: beiskaldi at aol.com
>Reply-To: AtlantianHeralds at yahoogroups.com
>To: <AtlantianHeralds at yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms
>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:23:46 EST
>
>In a message dated Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>"Edvard Gayer" <scavard at hotmail.com> writes:
>
><snip>
> > (1) If the pun was offensive enough 3 years ago to warrant it's removal,
wouldn't it still be considered offensive today?

It is offensive to some, not to others. Apparently some consorts prefer to
be represented by what is at best a crude euphemism to a female body part,
with less than respectable & honorable connotations, and with disregard to
what that says about her & the kingdom she represents as a whole. (No,  I'm
not opinionated, not at all!)  I will be the first to get in line for crude
jokes & off color humor, but then again I don't use any title when I do
that, and certainly am not representing any group of people or acting in any
official capacity.

 (2) Since it is likely that we heralds are the only ones who AS A GROUP
understand the nature of this pun, do we bear an obligation to explain the
pun to those non-heralds in our local groups, so that their opinion on this
matter may be an informed one?
8 or so years ago when I first got involved in the sca I recall seeing the
device, & thought about it less than a few minutes, & said to myself, why on
earth would they use that?  It took some of the people I knew, including our
then herald, much longer to figure it out, but I am pretty confident that at
least most of the populace of my group is clued in by now, and I would think
most people who were around in 99 when it was changed have a good idea.  I
don't think it needs to be outright explained in business meetings or by
email, whatever, but certainly answer anyone who asks.

thyra
Highland Foorde

  -----Original Message-----
  From: atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf Of Beiskaldi at aol.com
  Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:49 PM
  To: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
  Subject: [MR] Re: [AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms


  Well, since I see my comments on another list have been posted here, I
might add without my knowledge or permission, I will also post my response
here.  I find it unfortunate that the person who did so failed to attach my
entire post & all comments made, but then again, perhaps they would not have
made her argument as easy.



    In a message dated 03/29/2002 9:58:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
silverdragon at Charleston.Net writes:




      However, there is no grounds at all for the personal attack on Her
Highness
      merely for taking an action that all those who have an appreciation
for
      Atlantian history should applaud.

      After all, it does make one wonder what will be the next Atlantian
icon to
      fall in the name of theoretical politically incorrect allusions.
"Spike"
      would be a really obvious candidate, I suspect.





    And I suppose since I come from Virginia I should laud a return to
slavery and human ownership since it is our history and 'tradition'.  (So
sorry for not being politically correct there, but we shouldn't let that get
in the way, right?)  Quite frankly that is the kind of bs that has given the
sca a bad name to a lot of ex members, potential members that are turned off
after their first introduction & those that look down on it.  I fail to see
how offending and attacking your fellow CoH members (that lack of history &
reality thing) is an improvement over what I said.

    My comment made several assumptions:  1.  HRH knows of the allusion, 2.
If she did not, which I would find hard to believe if she has been in the
SCA and in Atlantia for the past 3-4 years, her advisors would have told
her--after all, that is what they are there for, and 3. for whatever reason
she is choosing to disregard that information.

    As I mentioned, that allusion is the very first thing I noticed upon
ever seeing the queen's arms, *as a newbie*, with no knowledge of heraldry &
little knowledge or history of the sca, so I can't imagine that noone else
ever saw it.  After all, since my world has 'little sense of history or
reality', I can hardly be expected to pick up on things that noone else
does--in fact, I should not be able to pick up on much at all if that were
true.

    Your commentary on the history of the arms itself shows a history of
moving forward, not going backward, which is exactly what this proposal
entails.  And you also point out that nowhere in that time were any
suggestions of impropriety made about the arms.  However, the fact is that
there currently *is* such a suggestion about it.  Regardless of what was,
the crown, and the populace, must deal with what is.  Even if there were no
negative connotations in the past, they are there now, and will continue to
be there in the future.

    dawn/thyra, speaking for myself & not as a rep of anything, whose
comments have already been taken out of context, so won't bother with
disclaimers


    Don't fret about growing older; it is a privilege denied to many.




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