[MR] Women and the Early Church

[Velsthe1 at aol.com]

>Heresy can be defined as that which goes against the 
>teaching proclaimed by the Magesterium. 
Heresy can also be defined as anything that is not proclaimed by the Magesterium, unless it is intuned that "if you are not with us, you are against us" is the rule here In which case, the above statement is absolutely true, from a certain poitn of view.

>Show me where one Pope has exercised his infallibility 
>and then another Pope has reversed it.  It has not 
>happened.  

That would be becuase Papal Infallibility is a relatively new idea, first being declared as dogma after 1600. I believe it was part of the same council of Bishops that set down the modern calendar and arranged for leap years. If you wish I can send you copies of various Catholic marriage cannon laws that have been revoked and modified in the last 30 years. Both items (original writing and revokation) by Popes.
And what does a Pope publicly that is not considered the exercism of office?


>Infallible does not mean "righteous."  
(courtesy of Miriam-Webster Online)
-in·fal·li·ble 1 : incapable of error : UNERRING 2 : not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : CERTAIN 
-righ·teous 1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin 
...Sounds rather synonomous by Websters definition.

>Then show me some evidence that tells me I am wrong, 
>and that the early Church did indeed ordain women to 
>the priesthood.  

It was attempted. But the evidence was refuted, essentially, on the grounds that all evidence was of people with an agenda and could not be corraborrated with other texts and sources recording the time-- Catholic Records. Which does eventually lead us back in the vicious circle we just crawled out of with Papal Infallibility, and by extension, the infallibility of the Catholic Church. The only obvious recounting was mentioned of St. Patrick ordaining a woman, but that was written off as an accident becuase he was tired and did not intend to do so... The source, Catholic Monks writing chruch histories. 

As far as Catholic and Orthodox (capital letters each), it is simply a matter of claiming authority over the other. The western Christian Church claimed to be the one true church, the eastern Christian Church claimed to be the organisation following most closely the true teachings of the Bible.

>...all I am trying to do is talk about history from 
>the evidence we have. 
Which you have refuted what little evidence was availible, on the grounds that the Catholic Church's documentation does not agree. Since the Catholic Church said women may not be priests at some point, whatever record there may have been has either been erased or written off and a heresy. Just becuase it is labeled heresy before, during, or after the fact does not mean it never happened. The Council of Bishops has done very little proactively in their entire history, the main exception would be the Vatican Two council. One might surmize then, that for there to be a prohibition against women as ordained clerical persons, then someone had to have tried it at least once, or even several times (for it to be noticed).



Vels
We'll leave my liturgical certifications out of this