[MR] Reply pt. 2 (women priests)

[EoganOg at aol.com]

Reply to Rosine pt. 2


>   I'm not actually going to get involved beyond this one post in this
> debate. It is a heavily emotional one for many people, and the evidence, or
> lack of it, is already a subject of extreme polarity amoung religious
> scholars. But I could not let the blanket dismissal of scholarly evidence,
> 



Well, we all appreciate a challenge, don't we? ;-)  But really, this should 
not be an emotional issue.  I know it is for many people who wish for women's 
ordination today.  But we aren't talking about that (and it would be way off 
topic for this list).  We are talking strictly history, and whether or not 
women were ordained as priests in the early church should not be an emotional 
topic.  Either they were or they were not.  We just need to look at the 
evidence for what it is worth.

And if one looks at that evidence with an open mind, one concludes that the 
only way it could be a subject of "extreme polarity" among scholars is if 
some of those scholars refuse to let go of their modern prejudices and 
political agendas.

For the record, I'm not dismissing out of hand "scholarly evidence for the 
cannonical ordaination of women."  I just haven't seen any yet.  So far the 
strongest evidence provided on this list has been from heretical sources that 
describe women acting is roles reserved for priests, but make no mention of 
these women actually being ordained.  And even if they were, it would not be 
a vaild "connonical ordaination" since the sources are all from heretical 
sources.

And there are ample historic sources from within the Church that constantly 
uphold the notion of the male-only priesthood.  For an example, the Council 
of Laodicea in 360 AD proclaimed, "[T]he so-called ‘presbyteresses’ or 
‘presidentesses’ are not to be ordained in the Church."

Epiphanius of Salamis wrote in 377 AD:
"It is true that in the Church there is an order of deaconesses, but not for 
being a priestess, nor for any kind of work of administration, but for the 
sake of the dignity of the female sex, either at the time of baptism or of 
examining the sick or suffering, so that the naked body of a female may not 
be seen by men administering sacred rites, but by the deaconess."

The Apostolic Constitutions of 400 AD tell us:
"A widow is not ordained; yet if she has lost her husband a great while and 
has lived soberly and unblamably and has taken extraordinary care of her 
family, as Judith and Anna—those women of great reputation—let her be chosen 
into the order of widows" (ibid., 8:25). 

And. . .
"A deaconess does not bless, but neither does she perform anything else that 
is done by presbyters [priests] and deacons, but she guards the doors and 
greatly assists the presbyters, for the sake of decorum, when they are 
baptizing women" (ibid., 8:28).     
    
When asnwering questions about women's ordination in the Church today many 
point to the example of Christ only ordaining men as his Apostles (the first 
bishops), despite the fact that he had many women as disciples.  All too 
often this is dismissed as a modern interpretation of Scripture to justify an 
age-old practice.  In fact, as early as 225 AD the Church was telling the 
same thing.
---
"For it is not to teach that you women . . . are appointed. . . . For he, God 
the Lord, Jesus Christ our Teacher, sent us, the twelve [apostles], out to 
teach the [chosen] people and the pagans. But there were female disciples 
among us: Mary of Magdala, Mary the daughter of Jacob, and the other Mary; he 
did not, however, send them out with us to teach the people. For, if it had 
been necessary that women should teach, then our Teacher would have directed 
them to instruct along with us" (Didascalia 3:6:1–2 [A.D. 225]).
---

These are just a few of the many sources from the early church that tell us 
that ordination to the priesthood was reserved for men.  Anyone suggesting 
that the early church accepted the ordination of women, and that there were 
even women bishops, would have to ignore or explain away the overwhelming 
amount of evidence that said this was simply not allowed.

Aye,
Eogan

Tighearn Eoghan Og mac Labhrainn, OPE, CP
Sacred Stone Pursuivant, Baronial Bard
WWW.ALBANACH.ORG
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 out of every 4 babies in America dies of CHOICE
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/pipermail/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org/attachments/20020304/cae566d9/attachment-0002.htm>