[MR] Re: Queen's Arms

[Logan]

ummm no.  i asked the question simply trying to see if there was any
justifiable reason it was said in the first place.  i dont care to know who
said it i was merely asking for a possible explanation as to why someone
would say something of that nature.  the desire for more insight is not, as
far as i can tell, a sign of agreement.  i dont think its an appropriate
thing to say about our queens past or future, if that was the intent of  the
original author either.  and a verifiable fact is simply that.  you saying
"well it was bob that said it" does not provide verifiable fact, only
hearsay.  i dont think that its in your character to lie so i am willing to
believe that you heard what you report.  but it is still not verifiable
other than by your word and perhaps others.  the use of the term was in no
way reflective of you or your personal integrity.  i hope that clears it up.
if not, please let me know.

a woman being degraded by childish prattle taking a piece of heraldry and
referring to it as "her most private body part" ( i assume somehow that the
"v" word is gaucherie) seems a bit silly.  are we suggesting that the antics
of juvenile idiots somehow dictates what the rest of us do?  by removing the
ermine in the first place all that was accomplished was giving weight and
justification to those stupid little comments.  and, of course, it simply
gave way to more stupid comments.  or perhaps you havent heard the current
joke?

the correlation i referred to was the one i thought you were attempting to
make in one man saying that its the only way she gets the crown and the low
brow playground humor regarding the queens arms.  nothing more.

and yes, her highness is a good friend of mine.  her honor and integrity are
in no way harmed, damaged, or tainted by the ramblings of stupid people.
the joke is dumb (although a bit inventive) and simply has no real bearing
on anything.  it certainly doesnt tarnish her as a person nor as the future
queen.

please contact me off this list if you would like to discuss this any
further or if you have any questions.]

regards
logan



-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf Of Rowanwald Central
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 5:56 AM
To: Merry Rose
Subject: Re: [MR] Re: Queen's Arms


Logan wrote:
> perhaps the comment was true though?  perhaps the queen,
> in which you mention without verifiable fact, could not have won
> a  crown tourney.  then the comment was somehow bad?  true
> but bad?  or was the comment that in general no atlantian woman
>  could ever win the crown by her own skill at arms?  if thats the case
> i would beg to ask for some more female students.
> 8^)

PLEASE correct me if I misunderstood you, Logan, but are you saying that you
*agree* that the statement "It's appropriate because that's the only way she
ever gets to win the throne anyway" is acceptable as a statement aimed at
any of our Queens??? That you don't understand that it could be _bad_?!?!

I am stunned. I hope it's only because I misread what you wrote. And are you
challenging me to provide the name of the King who said it and the queen he
was referring to? In order to what? Say it was OK and true because she's not
a fighter? Does it make me a liar if I don't? I need to besmurch the person
by name for "verifiable fact"?

No Way. Call me a liar if you want, I'm not spreading on this List. Enough
people were there to hear the shameful comment when it was made - since it
was an aside at a Curia. I will contact you in private if you really want to
know who said it. But the person saying it is less of an issue, in my mind,
than the fact that he said it expecting not to be contradicted or that
anyone should find it insulting. If my children were to refer to me as a
body part, I'd wash their mouths out with soap. I expect no less respect for
the office of our Queen. Further, I expect the Peerage, particularily the
Knighthood, to protect Her Honor and Dignity.

> i dont personally see how someones commentary such as you
>  have commented on below should have any bearing on what
>  people have to say about anyone if you
> know them to be different from the claim or take the time to hear out all
> sides.  i certainly dont understand the attempted correlation of the two
> topics.

The device, to put it bluntly, is a euphemism, and not a loving one, of a
woman's most private body part. That you don't understand the correlation
between the degrading symbology that it has in the modern world and the
dislike that I have for making it the symbol of the Premier Lady of our
Kingdom and the embodiment of Grace and Courtesy confuses me.

Do you *want* your Queen to be symbolized by that? I was assuming she's a
friend and someone you honor.

In tired and probably too-outspoken distress,
Rosine
--
Nobility depends not on parentage or place of birth,
but on breadth of compassion and depth of loving-kindness.
If we would be noble, let us be great-hearted.
rowanwald at sybercom.net

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