[MR] RE: [AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms

[E L Wimett]

On Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:24 PM, beiskaldi at aol.com 
[SMTP:beiskaldi at aol.com] wrote:
> Apparently some consorts prefer to be represented by what is at best a 
crude euphemism to a female body part, with less than respectable & 
honorable connotations, and with disregard to what that says about her & 
the kingdom she represents as a whole.

Whoa, Nellie!!!  That statement is in of itself VERY offensive and unfair 
to the lady in question who probably has a better sense of history and 
probably of reality than you do!  Or many of the other heralds who are 
jumping on an anti-modification bandwagon.

In more than twenty years as an active herald, I cannot ONCE remember the 
alleged "heraldic pun" being noted to me by anyone prior to the campaign to 
change the arms during Niobe's reign.  And, believe me, most of the off 
color puns and outright scatalogical or sexual allusions DO come up in 
commentary, if only to warn a submitter who may not be aware of them!
I do not remember it being raised by anyone from Atlantia or the East when 
the armory of "Per pale azure and argent  on  a fess wavy  cotised and 
counterchanged a scallop shell erminois." was registered for the Princess 
of Atlantia through the East in August, 1979.  (Remember this was before 
Atlantia was a kingdom.)  Moreover, both when I was Brigantia Herald of the 
East and when I was Laurel I had cause to check out the files (the latter 
included all commentary on the armory then and in later mods) and I do not 
recall the issue ever being raised then.
I was an actively commenting herald for the East when the Queen's arms of 
"Per pale azure and argent, on a fess wavy cotised counterchanged a scallop 
shell erminois, overall a chaplet of four roses gules, barbed and seeded 
Or, leaved vert." were registered in June, 1981, and do not recall this 
issue being raised by anyone inside or outside the College of Arms at the 
time.  (And, believe me, the Eastern College included some world-class 
punsters and lechers at the time!!!)

I was the primary commenting herald for the East when the arms were 
modified to "Per pale azure and argent, on a fess wavy cotised 
counterchanged between three roses gules, barbed and seeded Or, an escallop 
erminois." in December, 1982 and do not recall the issue being raised once 
in commentary or there being any issues raised by the populace (and I was 
travelling to Atlantia quite a bit at that time.)  Those arms remained in 
place for nearly fourteen years.  The Queen of Atlantia at the time they 
were registered was Tuiren de Lisle whom I knew well and, believe me, if 
there had been any hint of such a "scandalous pun" the many military in her 
household would have pointed it out and she would have "taken steps"!

The arms were again modified slightly in 1996 when the Laurel Sovereign of 
Arms was an Atlantian and again I do not remember any hint of impropriety 
being cast on the armory.  Then again I may not have seen ALL the 
commentary, but Jaelle certainly did and I cannot think that she would have 
been so derelict as to not mention the allusion if it had been raised 
either publicly or privately.

Let me say again that the first time I heard any impropriety imputed to the 
Queen's arms was when the rather sudden and overwhelming campaign to change 
them arose during Niobe's reign.  I spoke at the time against this move 
since it did not seem grounded in either fact or history.  However, but 
logic and history were swamped by an argument that went something like: 
"Our noble queen is left alone with many small children as her king is 
called to active duty and, whether or not there is any real reason to 
change the armory, it is the least we can do to comfort her in her hour of 
need."  (No, I am not overstating that.  It is almost verbatim what someone 
sent me in a private email together with some personal invective that I 
will NOT repeat.)

What harm was there in changing the Queen's arms?  The element that was 
changed had been a central element of the consort's arms since principality 
days, i.e. for more than twenty years.  It was part of the history of 
Atlantia and, what is more, whether folk today realize it or not, probably 
was an allusion to the royal armory of the East.  (At least so I was told 
by several senior heralds when I moved to the East a few months after the 
armory was registered in 1979.)

Many years ago the Queen's arms of the East were quite different from what 
they are today.  (Indeed, I played a major part in designing and 
registering the new arms for the consort of the East registered in October, 
1983, a few months after I became Principal Herald of the East so I am not 
against modifications in armory generally.  There was a very solid reason 
for that change: the Queen's arms did not look at all like either the 
kingdom/king's arms or any other royal armory of the East so was very 
confusing to the populace, particularly at Pennsic.  They were also, quite 
frankly ugly!)

Prior to 1983 the traditional arms of the Queen were commonly referred to 
in heraldic circles in the East as "the furry flaunches" since they 
involved a pair of flaunches that may or may not have been intended to 
emulate the appearance of a sideless surcoat.  (That may have fallen into 
the category of urban legend, but that was certainly what they looked 
like.)

Given the desire to echo the kingdom/king's arms and to use maritime themes 
appropriate to Atlantia, the Atlantian Queen's arms were designed to 
include an escallop.  Reasonable enough.  According to the senior heralds 
when I was still young, the choice of erminois rather than the Or used on 
the king's arms for the crown WAS a subtle heraldic allusion, but to the 
arms of the East.

Now it is possible that the people involved were trying to spare the 
blushes of a rapidly aging old maid.  (I was already in my thirties at that 
time.)  However, knowing the people involved and some of the other humor 
they shared with me, I find that somewhat unlikely.

But, to return to the original point, if the lady had chosen to accuse Her 
Highness of poor taste for eschewing the less complex Or tincture for the 
busier fur, then I would have regretted it, but not thought the less of 
her.  (Though I would still have attempted to point out to her the 
importance of retaining something which was so prominent a part of 
Atlantian history for more than twenty years.)

However, there is no grounds at all for the personal attack on Her Highness 
merely for taking an action that all those who have an appreciation for 
Atlantian history should applaud.

After all, it does make one wonder what will be the next Atlantian icon to 
fall in the name of theoretical politically incorrect allusions.  "Spike" 
would be a really obvious candidate, I suspect.

Alisoun
NOT speaking officially as a member of the College of Heralds or the 
College of Arms but as a citizen of Atlantia