[MR] Tangent: Long Reply on Soap Box

[Brian Williamson/MIS/EXTSTAY]

Just to preface my response here.  My original comment that started this
Tangent
was meant in a playful manner, hence many smileys  =).  I will not be the
one
to start a difference again between Heavy and Rapier fighters saying one is
better or worse than the other, nor do I believe that you can compare the
two style as Hrothgar said, comparing tofu to steak, though I don't think
he should say Heavy fighting is like Tofu  =).  We should only be finding
more ways to join all fighters in closer brotherhood, not saying that one
is better than the other.  That is why we have so many different areas
of interest in the SCA because everyone does not play the same game,
nor should they be forced to.  Everyone shares equal glory in the SCA
be they Heavy Fighter, Rapier Fighter, A&S Fighter, Seneschal Fighter,
Archery Fighter, King Fighter, Court Jester Fighter, Mead Drinking Fighter,
Ugly Bar Wench Fighter, Live Weapons Throwing Fighter.......... etc.
The activity the gentle participates in is the most important thing to
them.

>>alternative for people who couldn't fight.<<
Well, let's say choose not to fight Heavy.  Just because
a person is not a Heavy fighter does not me they do not fight in their
own way, be it on the list field or A&S table.

>>I don't think we can continue to attempt the support of two martial
styles.<<
So, there is only one way to play the game and if we don't like it, pack up
our
toys and go home.  As far as I am aware, Rapier fighters fight for the
Queen's
honor.  Doesn't that mean that we should continue to support that effort.

>>on the other a game of tag being played with 19th and 20th Century
accouterments.<<
Remember Rattan sticks and Freon can helms? Creative Anacronists.
The reason we use modern fencing equipment is because it is safe and
proven.
We are dueling in deadly earnest, not playing tag.  Just as you fight to
kill,
so we fight to kill or render Honorably inclined to discontinue the bout
due to wounds.

>>  The only period duels I have been able to document were fought in armor
with legitimate weapons.<<
A great many gentles have been able to document duels using backswords,
which
is a very slender sword similar to the Schlager. In what way is a stick
similar to a broad sword? In the book Sword and the Centuries, I
believe is documents a couple of duels pre 1600.

>>Unfortunately, you can't use it the way it's meant to be used with
the current fencing armor standards.<<
The Rapier Marshalette is currently reviewing the cut and slash rules for
use with schlagers and Del Tins.

>>fighting is more exciting to watch<<
Heavy fighting is definitely louder to watch.  Please understand that
Heavy Fighting is not the only game on the field. Some people could care
less about any fighting at all.  Those people who rest on their Laurels.
=)

Again I reiterate that, neither Heavy nor Rapier is better than the other.
Of
course we prefer what we do.  People will go to the different areas of the
Society that interest them.  There is enough room for all.  Have fun
playing
the game we do.  The hobby that we play.  SCA is Not real life, nor should
we fight over who is right.  After all..........
Can't we all just get along?     =)

Lord Bastian de la Salle
Free Scholar of the Academie
Rapier, Schlager and Combat Archer Marshal

Brian Williamson
IS Site Support
Extended Stay America
1-864-573-1700


In a message dated 2/6/02 8:53:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
BWilliamson at extstay.com writes:


 don't
 knock it until you've tried it


  I have tried it. I was one of the many well meaning folks six or seven
years ago who were pushing fencing as a good alternative for people who
couldn't fight. I saw it as a way for small or otherwise physically
challenged people to get a taste of what it's like for us on the field. But
comparing it to fighting is to compare tofu to steak.
 It never occurred to me that people would decide to do it instead of
fighting and then try to convince people it's on the same level. The fact
that so many people think there should be a "rapier king" or that there
should be a special peerage created just proves that the whole thing has
gotten out of hand.
  The SCA structure is based on armored combat. I don't think we can
continue to attempt the support of two martial styles. I believe it is at
the root of a lot of our recruitment problems because it sends out vastly
differing images to someone on the outside looking in. You have on the one
hand the chivalry and glory of combat, the knight in armor that is at the
base of everyone's vision of the middle ages, and on the other a game of
tag being played with 19th and 20th Century accouterments.
  The only period duels I have been able to document were fought in armor
with legitimate weapons. The majority of the manuals which are cited as
proving that fencing is period use broadswords, great swords, and a
technique that would require more armor than we use.
   I agree that schlager is a far more reasonable replication of a period
weapon. Unfortunately, you can't use it the way it's meant to be used with
the current fencing armor standards. But I'll argue with you about the
audience. Whenever I've seen fencing and fighting simultaneously occurring
near each other, the vast majority of people in the crowd are watching the
fighting. Regardless of how you try to convince yourself otherwise,
fighting is more exciting to watch. It might please you to think that folks
are watching your exploits with rapt attention, but it usually isn't the
case.

Hrothgar