FW: [MR] Coronation Curia - New Orders?
Phillip Jones
jonesj at InfoAve.Net
Mon Sep 17 19:35:42 PDT 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Jones [mailto:jonesj at infoave.net]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:33 PM
To: Merry Rose
Subject: RE: [MR] Coronation Curia - New Orders?
My initial reaction is that the Chivalry is NOT a peerage for all martial
activity, but for a very specific one. Those who have chosen other martial
activities will never be elevated to the peerage for said activities.
Second, I am afraid that the new names leave me cold and uninspired. I don't
aspire to be a nereid, rumors aside:) I can just see the furor around
narwhal (who you calling a whale?). Manatee=sea-cow (udderly absurd).
I deeply appreciate the resistance to instituting a new GOA level award
without grand fathering in the current order. It is not disingenuous on my
part to say I don't think it is the gOA which is the stumbling block, but
the question of who gets pulled up into that new order, and how. Does the
clock reset? Might be hard on the ancient ones, stiff of knee and neck, to
achieve that new lofty status.
Maybe the fallacy for me is looking at the current orders as necessarily
stepping stones to others. Is the Sea Stag a junior peerage? I am proud to
be a member, but that doesn't put me any closer to knighthood. Is the Golden
Dolphin a junior Pelican? Doesn't appear that way to me. Seems that the bars
are about equal, but one is said to reward Society wide service rather than
Kingdom.
The cause of all this is, I understand, that the bars are considered too
high in the current Atlantian orders. Finally, I'd humbly suggest that it is
the bar in the peerages which need to be examined.
Phillip Jones
Triplette Competition Arms
101 East Main Street
Elkin, NC 28621
336-835-7774
phillip at mindless.com
www.triplette.com
-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf Of Edvard Gayer
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 6:45 PM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Coronation Curia - New Orders?
Gang:
With much of the bandwidth on the Merry Rose of late having been consumed by
matters relating to the NYC/DC tragedy, I fear that a post made a few days
ago by Pedro might have been lost in the noise. :)
To try to get the discussion jump-started, I will attempt to provide an
easier-to-digest version of the award proposal put forth by Their Royal
Majesties (TRMs) at Curia a weekend ago, together with an alternate that was
proposed by members of the audience. :)
Oh, before I get rolling, please note that TRMs have stated that They are
very interested in your comments and opinions, but you will need to write
directly to Them ... discussion on the Merry Rose or other lists are fine
and encouraged, but They want to hear directly from you if you have an
opinion specifically to share. Their addresses are king "at"
atlantia.sca.org and queen "at" atlantia.sca.org.
Okay, here we go:
First, it was proposed that a new tier of awards be created, and that these
awards convey Grants of Arms. The current Kingdom Orders of Merit (Pearl,
Golden Dolphin, Sea Stag, and until recently White Scarf) all convey an
Award of Arms. (At Curia the week before, Havordth and Mary-Grace elevated
White Scarf to the Grant level.) Here's the current award structure, taking
into account the Scarf's elevation:
Society Orders of Orders of
Peerage --- High Merit --- Merit
(PoA) (GoA) (AoA)
LAUREL --- (none) --- Pearl (A&S)
PELICAN --- (none) --- Golden Dolphin (Service)
CHIVALRY --- (none) --- Sea Stag (Marshal: Education)
--- White Scarf --- (none) (Marshal: Rapier)
(PoA = Patent of Arms, GoA = Grant of Arms, AoA = Award Simple of Arms. For
simplicity, I have lumped the orders together, based on which of the Three
Paths to Glory -- A&S, Service, Marshal -- that they happen to fall into.
It is not my intent to imply that membership in any particular order is a
prerequisite for membership in any other.)
Besides these orders, the following sub-AoA awards exist that also fall into
one of the Three Paths:
A&S: Silver Nautilus
Service: (none)
Marshal: Kraken (Prowess), Yew Bow (Archery), Sharks' Tooth (Acts of
Heroism/Valor)
(There are other sub-AoA awards in Atlantia, but none of them happen to
align particularly-well with any of the Three Paths.)
Besides the creation of new GoA-level Orders of High Merit, TRMs also
expressed Their wish to elevate the Kraken and Yew Bow from their current
sub-AoA level up to the AoA-level, and make them polling orders like the
Pearl, Dolphin and Stag. The resulting award structure would look something
like this:
Society Orders of Orders of
Peerage --- High Merit --- Merit
(PoA) (GoA) (AoA)
LAUREL --- (new order) --- Pearl (A&S)
PELICAN --- (new order) --- Golden Dolphin (Service)
CHIVALRY --- (new order) --- Sea Stag (Marshal: Education)
--- (new order) --- Kraken (Marshal: Prowess)
--- (new order) --- Yew Bow (Marshal: Archery)
--- White Scarf --- (none) (Marshal: Rapier)
This proposal generated much discussion. :)
A suggestion was put forth by members of the crowd which supported a
modification to the original proposal. This modification would elevate the
current orders to become Grant-bearing orders of high merit, and would cause
the creation of new AoA-level orders below them. That structure might look
somewhat like this:
Society Orders of Orders of
Peerage --- High Merit --- Merit
(PoA) (GoA) (AoA)
LAUREL --- Pearl --- (new order) (A&S)
PELICAN --- Golden Dolphin --- (new order) (Service)
CHIVALRY --- Sea Stag --- (new order) (Marshal: Education)
--- (new order) --- Kraken (Marshal: Prowess)
--- (new order) --- Yew Bow (Marshal: Archery)
--- White Scarf --- (none) (Marshal: Rapier)
Notwithstanding the discussion about whether to make the existing orders
Grant-bearing ones or not, there was a different but related, topic that
TRMs raised. To wit, "What should we call the new orders?" The following
six names were proposed by TRMs, although none of these were specifically
paired to any of the five new orders. The names are:
Nereid, Narwhal, Conch, Opal, Ibis, and Manatee
For those not fluent in award-speak, some abridged defintions from
dictionary.com are in *order* (pardon the pun!):
- NEREID (NEER-ee-id) n : (Greek mythology) any of the 50 sea nymphs who
were daughters of the sea god Nereus
- NARWHAL (NAR-wal) n : small arctic whale the male having a long spiral
ivory tusk
- CONCH (konk, konch) n: a brightly colored spiral shell, also, in works of
art, the shell used by Tritons as a trumpet
- OPAL (OH-pal) n: a translucent mineral of variable color; some varieties
are used as gemstones
- IBIS (EYE-bis) n: Any of various wading birds of temperate and tropical
regions, having a long, slender, downward-curving bill.
- MANATEE (MAN-a-tee) n: Any of various aquatic mammals, having paddlelike
front flippers and a horizontally flattened tail and found in warm coastal
waters of Florida, northern South America, West Africa, and the Caribbean.
To conclude, please consider TRMs original proposal, as well as the
alternate put forth by several at Curia. Also, please consider whether or
not there may be a completely DIFFERENT proposal that may make more sense to
you, or even whether you believe it best to leave things as they currently
are. Lastly, if new orders are indeed to be created, please give the
suggested order names your thought and try to form an opinion as to which
ones should be used where. If particular ones do not seem well-suited to
you, perhaps you might suggest other names that you may prefer to see used.
The Merry Rose is a dandy place for these issue to be bandied about, and I
believe that discussion/education should always be encouraged. And as
stated above (waaaay up near the top!) Their Majesties are VERY MUCH
interested in your opinion, but you must contact Them DIRECTLY if you wish
your voice to be heard. :)
I hope this clarification has been of some service.
Yours,
// Vard //
Lord Edvard Gayer, Pursuivant
Atlantian College of Heralds
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