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    My 2 cents worth:<br>
    I really think 5 darts in 30 seconds is asking too much.  Of course,
    I still can't shoot 5 arrows in 30 seconds in my rolling nut
    crossbow.<br>
    <br>
    I haven't seen anyone toss a dart 100 yards.  I think Reyne has the
    record in Bright  Hills and she used to be trained in the javelin.
    Franky, my shoulder aches just thinking about 40 yards.I don;t want
    to lose out because I'm not strong enough.  Even with a 30 lb. bow
    I'd still have a chance.<br>
    <br>
    One point that hasn't been brought up - the atlatl itself.  There
    seem to be three varieties - a trainer version in which the dart is
    held on by jamming the dart in a notch; the regular atlatl in which
    a finger holds the dart in place, and one I haven't actually seen in
    person, a really whippy atlatl that could have a weight to give it
    more 'whip'.  Are they all legal?<br>
    <br>
    I guess while I'm at it, do we want standards for darts?  River reed
    vs. solid shaft?  What about length of shaft - shorter shafts are
    easier to through but longer shafts may go further.<br>
    <br>
    barre<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/10/2012 3:33 PM, Jay Nardone
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:010201cdd715$9757ef60$c607ce20$@net"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This
            is a great discussion and I thank you all for it. Please
            keep it up. So for now it sounds like we are agreeing on a
            few things:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">       </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Using
            a bigger “FITA” style target vise the Royal round target<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">       </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ranges
            should be a bit shorter than archery ranges (maybe 15,25,35?
            Or some derivative?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">       </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">5
            Darts per end will be used (just to be different?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">       </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Decision
            still out on timed rounds?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">       </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Use
            of a “10” ring for bullseye<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
            Service,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Janyn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a>
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a>] <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>deedee Mail<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 10, 2012 9:24 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Groff, Garth (ggg9y)<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Archers] Atl Atl Rules<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Mungo,<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The possible range for an atlatl sooooo
              exceeds the TW range, that it is<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">a no-go.  The TW farthest targets (and
              these are rarely used) are 30 FEET!!<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The atlatl has a 200+ YARD capability
              (okay, I have yet to see a throw over<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">100 yards, but still.... :)).  We've
              been through this discussion many times, before, <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">and the archery range has always been
              determined to be the most appropriate.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Siegfried,<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The main problem I see with your
              suggestion is that most people don't tend<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">to have 6 <span
                class="apple-style-span">darts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Dealla<br>
              <br>
              Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
              On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:00 AM, "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ggg9y@virginia.edu">ggg9y@virginia.edu</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D">Noble Friends,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D">We used to have atlatls
                    occasionally on the practice range in Isenfir (when
                    we still had a range). Since we had room for only
                    one target and shooting line, the atlatl throwers
                    shared the archery line.  I preferred for them to
                    throw first, in case they actually hit the target,
                    their darts wouldn’t crush somebody’s arrows (for
                    the same reason I always invited crossbow shooters
                    to go first). Throwing at 20-30-40 yards was quite
                    impractical. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D">Atlatl throwers really deserve
                    their own range at distances appropriate to their
                    weapons, and where they can throw at a pace that
                    doesn’t disrupt the archery. While I have no problem
                    with atlatls, they are probably better suited to a
                    thrown weapons range.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D">Yours Aye,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D">Mungo</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                      style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><u><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></u></b><u><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a>
                          [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahor">mailto:archers-bounces@seahor</a></span></u><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://se.atlantia.sca.org">se.atlantia.sca.org</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Nardone<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:45 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> [Archers] Atl Atl Rules</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Good
                  evening everyone, I know I should have my head
                  examined but I would be scared of what they find! If
                  you ever have seen me attempt an Atl Atl you would
                  know they aren’t my favorite but…..Last year or so I
                  know Lorelei got the ball rolling with trying to
                  establish some Royal Round rules for Atl Atl and I
                  think it is that time once again. We need to complete
                  the discussion and planning so we can move forward
                  with this and get something in place governing Atl Atl
                  in our Kingdom.  So let’s start the discussions once
                  again, and please just keep in mind this is a
                  discussion and one’s opinion is not any better than
                  another’s.  When we get close to a final solution I
                  will officiate the vote to move forward. I went back
                  in my archives and this seems to be the last email I
                  had on the subject, it came from Lord Jonathan:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">I would like to add my thoughts
                  to the debate. <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">The current Atlantian rules for
                  Atlatl are based on an archery mind set.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">People who can only count to 5,
                  and need colors to help!  In the mundane world of
                  Atlatl hurlers, they can count to 10; however, they
                  have to start at 6.  Don't ask where 1 through 5
                  went.  But at least they can do it in black and
                  white.  Please see the attached image of their
                  official atlatl target.  The target looks to be 100cm
                  in diameter.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">My research has uncovered the
                  distances at which they throw and the number of darts
                  at each distance vary somewhat by club.  The closest
                  is<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">6 meters and the furthest is 25
                  meters.  The total number of darts in an official
                  round appears to be 10, either two stations of 5 darts
                  each, or<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">5 stations with 2 darts each.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">The current Atlantian throwing
                  distances are 20, 30 and 40 yards.  Since we in the
                  SCA try to have fun, anything past 20 yards for a 60sm
                  target does not meet that standard.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">I propose the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">Target:  standard Royal Round
                  60cm 5 color target.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">Distances:  10 yards, 15 yards,
                  and 20 yards Number of darts at each distance: 3
                  Highest possible score is 45.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoPlainText">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">In
                  Service,<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Janyn<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
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            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                Archers mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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