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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Okay a few things here. I’m not sure where the politics are coming in as well but I want to clear a few things up that I am reading to set the record straight.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The St. Sebastians and Known world shoots were thought about and actually discussed long before the fall of 2010 by myself, Godai and Seamus. I still have the original emails that I sent out starting the discussion topic. We then discussed it with COG and a few others to get input and it was opened to the forums. I have no energy to “see who’s is bigger” on the matter but the facts are the facts. Not sure why this is even important?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m unclear to your reference of opposition to the known world shoot??? St. Sebastians was born as a starting point to show what Atlantia could do and what we consistently do in our novelty shoots. My discussions with Lorelei and the leads from the Mid and East were always that Atlantia would conduct the first and then it would rotate through the other Kingdoms so no one kingdom would have to host multiple years in a row. I don’t remember you ever being present at any of those discussions I held so Im confused? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I never stated that there would not be a St. Sebastians shoot. My statement was that I would not lead the St. Sebastian’s shoot next year if for some odd reason the other Kingdoms asked us too. Right now, the East knows they or the Mid are up to run it. Either way I am shifting my focus to the Known World Shoot as it is something that I have always aspired to pull off. Why is this troubling to you in any way? Why would you care? No one has made any final decisions on anything and I would ask that you don’t jump to conclusions prior to discussion. It was Atlantia’s baby to kick it off which we have done two years in a row, if there is signs that it will fall on the floor I’m sure we will take it again to make sure it happens (I’m pretty sure that is what my post stated?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So once again I will ask that we communicate with each other and not hang on every word I say. I know this was not the direction I was posting about in my lat post and I don’t wish to turn something positive into negative things. So let me recap here once again to make sure I am very clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Right now next year’s St. Sebastian’s shoot will be run either by the East or the Mid as we planned from the start. If they falter we will have the chance of stepping in to run it again. If that happens I will not be the MIC for it next year because I am focusing on the Known World Shoot and I would like to give someone else the chance to run it if they would like from Atlantia.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Known World Shoot is not intended to replace the St. Sebastian’s shoot, but if it is to be as grand as planned, I’m not sure how we would pull off two of them in a limited time and space at Pennsic. In any event this is in the planning stages and I am just starting to talk to the other Kingdoms about this. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In Service,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Janyn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>barysears<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 07, 2012 10:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Archers] Known World stuff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I would really like to think that, as archers, we could keep politics out of it, but apparently not.<br><br>barre<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/7/2012 9:21 AM, Holly Gibbons wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-bottom:10.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Greetings, Atlantian Archers.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-bottom:10.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I have not been on the archery lists much this past year, but this one really caught my eye.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>First off, I think we need to remember our history as we go forward in the planning for a known world championship. The discussions on this whole topic really got going a long time ago, on the archers’ list, in the fall of 2010. I recall that it was Fen and I that first wrote and were soon joined by all the others of you who were unhappy with the archery experience at Pennsic. The motivation for running a shoot parallel but different from the “champions’ team” was plain and simple unhappiness with the status quo. Every year at Pennsic archers from all over the known world gathered and wanted to play their game and compete against each other, compete against archers from all across the kingdoms. We watched as the Thrown Weapons folks had a ton of fun running their championships and we wondered, why can’t archers have the same fun? Yet, year after year, the Mid and East controlled everything and severely limited the number of Atlantians that could shoot the champions team war point. Most really good Atlantian archers were left shooting only the populace targets day after day. Not much fun and not happy. There was just horrendous bad karma surrounding the whole champions shoot. So bad that it was totally turning off many of Atlantia’s best archers from participating at all - - some didn’t even take their bows to Pennsic! So in the fall/winter of 2010, since we had no control over the official Pennsic stuff, we all decided to put on our own shoot. At that time, I was one of the ones in favor of making this “extra shoot” a Known World Archery Championship. It made sense to me that since we were all at Pennsic and since many archers already traveled for long distances to be there, that it was our best shot for a real known world competition. But in the discussions on the list, most Atlantians wanted a non-exclusive, relatively non-competitive, shoot. There was just a strong sense of “enough with the competition already.” So that’s what we did, we decided to hold an open, fun, not particularly competitive shoot (although there were scorecards and prizes), and we called it St. Sebastian’s Shoot (thanks, Siegfried!) and purposefully left out any wording about championship or known world. The ulterior motives were to (a) show the known world what kind of wonderful novelty shoot Atlantia could put on (b) contribute to Pennsic archery in a positive way (c) demonstrate that it is possible to run 150 or more people through a novelty shoot in one day, as a way to try to convince the powers-that-be to open up the “champions’ team” to a larger size so more Atlantians could shoot, and (d)to have fun putting on a shoot together. So for two Pennsics we have put on St. Sebastian’s Shoot, with great success as measured by the smiles, the children, the amazing targets, the “thank-you” comments, and the sense of happiness and camaraderie on the archery range. I have been really proud to be an Atlantian Archer, as I’m sure many of you have been, too. All the other stuff has somehow become moot. I felt no compunction to do any other shooting, nor any bad karma during my vacation. </span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>2.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Which leads me to the present discussions. After strongly opposing any mention of “known world” or “championship” for our big Pennsic shoot, which lead to the St. Sebastian’s Shoot and its focus on inclusiveness, suddenly there was a new push in 2011 for just that very thing, an ultra-competitve known world archery championship! So we then decided on the archers’ list that it is a big world and there should be room for everything. I think it was said there should be room for St. Sebastian’s on the range and for cog’s dog-and-pony show at the castle, too - - the more archery the merrier! And that’s pretty much where things were left off. After some discussion of a symposium, a stand-alone archery event, it dwindled. I do think it is most sensible to attach any “known world” event to Pennsic, just the most logical choice.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>3.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>That said, the present talk right now is of a known world championship consisting of another novelty, multi-target shoot with archers keeping their own score and then a shootout at the end. I am afraid we are reinventing the wheel here. But much more troubling to me, as someone who has worked hard on the two St. Sebastian’s Shoots, is the revelation in the new posting that somehow, unilaterally, St. Sebastian’s Shoot has gotten scrapped by the authorities. The East has been informed that we do not want to hold St. Sebastian’s next year? Was there a consensus on this? Whose decision is this to make? Janyn? I disagree that the “original” intent was to hand off the shoot to other kingdoms. That was never in my understanding of it. Yes, it is great if other kingdoms wanted to do that, but there was also quite a bit of, this is Atlantia’s baby and we like it that way.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>4.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As a public spectacle, cog’s dog-and-pony show , I absolutely love- adore! - the idea of a shootout in front of the castle. But I have seen the jockeying and cheating that goes on and I would say, do not have a pre-shootout qualifier multi-target shoot-at-your-own-pace event to pick teams. Have any of you watched the way they do things at Thrown Weapons? Four competitors in front of four targets. Two throws and you rotate. Repeat. When those four are done, bring on the next four. Marshals score the hits. It is very efficient, very public, very fun. If you really have a crowd of archers to run through in a very small amount of time, it could be even more efficient if you only got two or three arrows, period. You could have four archers at a time shooting at each of four identical targets. Up and out. (Seen Brave?) Then take the top scorers and have your shootout. All public, all with a crowd. And we absolutely could pull this off in 2013. It’s just not that complicated – that is the beauty of it. Getting on the battlefield schedule is the hardest part.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>5.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This idea that you can call for targets from each kingdom is one that has been bandied about endlessly. But as every MIC who has tried it knows, it does not work. How many times have “target competitions” been announced -- you know, bring your best target and we will let the populace vote on their favorite -- only to have no targets show up? I won one of those once because mine was the only target. Someone from the East actually said, at Pennsic, that the East would do like to that next year for a novelty shoot at Pennsic. She actually said,”we have a great idea, everybody else will bring the targets and the people will vote and we will give prizes but not have to do the work !” It told her we call it the lazy MIC shoot. Good luck with that. And even if you can get targets from every corner of the earth, who is to put a cohesive shoot together out of all the orphan targets?</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>6.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Anyway, I am writing for several reasons. One, I hate to see Atlantia walk away from St. Sebastian’s Shoot, especially without some kind of public forum on that choice. Two, I like the public shootout as a separate stand-alone Pennsic event. Three, I just want to remind everyone of all that has led up to this point in time.</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:10.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Nuala </span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>Original Message:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>Good evening everyone, now that we are back from Pennsic and hopefully well<br>rested I wanted to take a minute to discuss something with you. Around this time<br>last year THL Christophe and I started a discussion about trying to hold the<br>first known world archery championship. Our thoughts were that Pennsic would be<br>the most opportune place because we could capitalize on all of the archers there<br>from the known world. I wanted to start this discussion now because I firmly<br>believe that if we start now we will not be ready for Pennsic next year but we<br>could target 2014. Also there is no way myself or even a few of us could pull<br>this off alone. If COG is willing I would throw my hat and hopefully his into<br>the ring to lead this event. With that said, we would need a lead also for each<br>kingdom for archery related items, an autocrat like lead to help with<br>communications and inter-kingdom discussions and I'm thinking an exchequer like<br>lead because I'm thinking we would want to charge a small fee if we want to get<br>some very nice prizes. If not we could drop this last position. In addition we<br>would need volunteers again to help marshal and make some targets.<br><br>Unlike St. Sebastian's, I was thinking that each of the participating kingdoms<br>could make 2 or 3 targets to enter into the competition. This part is still<br>fuzzy but I was thinking that we could hold basically eliminations by the way of<br>an all day shoot like St. Sebastian's to pair the teams down to a final 4. The<br>whole point of this would then be to have a shoot off of those final 4 teams in<br>front of the populous on the battle field (yes I know scheduling will suck, that<br>is why we would do this 2 years out), to a final champion team of the known<br>world. Team sizes would be 18 -24 and this would be a total points competition.<br>This part is also fuzzy still but I was thinking that we could make it<br>interesting by making each of the team positions cover GBE, BE, BOWMAN,<br>MARKSMAN, etc…<br><br>I have been mentioning this to Lord Godric of the East and this year while at<br>the range at Pennsic, I overheard him talking with his deputy about trying to<br>start communications about this event. I would love for Atlantia to pull this<br>off but I need to know how you all feel and if you're up to something of this<br>level? I don't believe for a minute that the East will pull this together for<br>next year since they can't seem to even run the St. Sebastian's as it should be,<br>but I would hate to lose this shoot to someone else because we didn't act.<br><br>So, that is that. I just wanted to start the discussion again over the fall and<br>winter months to see where our excitement level is? If we decide to proceed I<br>will get word to Godric and we would need to form the core team quickly. That<br>way we could start to get the word out to the other Kingdoms and try to get the<br>logistics in place to lay the foundation. I told the East that we did not want<br>to run St. Sebastian's next year because we wanted to move up to this event. In<br>all honesty the intent of St. Sebastian's was that Atlantia would run it the<br>first year and hand it off to the mid or east to run it next and then rotate<br>through so no Kingdom had to repeatedly run it. I took it back this year because<br>there was little interest from the east or others to run it at the level we are<br>used too. I will still probe the East later this year to find out what is<br>happening with the novelty shoot for Pennsic next year. We can worry about that<br>later….<br><br>In Service,<br><br>Janyn<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archers mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>