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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you Charles, this more evidence for what many of us are willing to fight for. It saddens me even in the most recent post they just released about the rapier order, that they continue to choose adjectives to dance around us “others”. Although I guess I would rather have a “catch” all group for the rest of us than nothing if it every came to that, I resent that we would not be considered to the same level to have our own peerage. In unity we have chance…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Janyn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>J. Hughes<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Antlanian<br><b>Subject:</b> [Archers] Fw: From the SCA-Announcement list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Last night I had a long and interesting conversation with Sir Jon about the nobles' use of archery in war. I was pointing out examples of noble use of archery in war that he had not cited in his work. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Godfry de Bouillon wielded a crossbow in 1099 in the First Crusade attack on Jerusalem that made him the first ruler of the Kingdom of Jer</span><span style='color:black'>usalem. Richard the Lionheart was shooting his crossbow at both the siege of Acre and attacking over the beach at Joppa. The examples of lesser knights and nobles shooting archery are endless. Even the Robin Hood legends are in part based on a crossbow wielding Baron and knight, FitzWaren, who took to the greenwood when he fell afoul of King John. FitzWaren was one of the signers of Magna Carta.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Charles <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>----- Forwarded Message -----<br><b>From:</b> Garth Groff <<a href="mailto:ggg9y@virginia.edu">ggg9y@virginia.edu</a>><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 6, 2012 7:48 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Archers] From the SCA-Announcement list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv1107862444><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>M'Lord Christophe and Noble Friends of the Bow,<br><br>To echo what you said, archery was a respected activity among the noble classes throughout much of Europe. Archery was for the hunt, as well as for leisure, and nearly all nobles, ladies included, learned the bow. Three notable examples of noble archers were Henry VIII, who was a master archer in his youth; Antoine the Grand Bastard of Burgundy won the respected St. Stebastian's Tournament at Bruge; and Charles the Bold won the same tournament several times in the 1460s. <br><br>There were a number of noted Viking lords who were famous archers, as well as several Highland Scottish chiefs. I can dig up some information on the latter if anyone is interested.<br><br>The perception that archers were all bleeding peasants arises because IN BATTLE knights seldom used the bow and arrow (Scots and Vikings excepted). The sword, lance, mace, or axe were the honorable tools of a noble's trade. The French, in particular and with good reason, feared and hated English archers through their experiences in the Hundred Years War. Their notions, as well as similar prejudices of the English nobility (including the Robin Hood myth, with archery as a weapon of outlaws), poisoned the well throughout history among nobles. This continues in the SCA. <br><br>Lord Christophe's ideas about promoting archery are very good in a general for educating our populace, though I'm not certain they will change the entrenched attitudes our own nobility. Likely for some knights (but not all), the idea of admitting such rabble to their ranks would be the ruination of the SCA. Maybe they play the chivalry game too seriously.<br><br>If we have to dance to become peers, I'm sunk anyway. :~)<br><br>Yours Aye,<br><br><br>Mungo<br><br>On 3/6/2012 8:18 AM, John Atkins wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>(As Mungo starts his posts) My Fellows of the Bow,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>As we are discussing a peerage for archery let me suggest something for us to contemplate. Within the SCA archers and archery is not perceived as a skilled activity. There is the incorrect perception that historically archers came from the lower classes. Sir Jon on the SCA Archery list has a very well researched and written article refuting this misconception yet it persists in the SCA. The second point is that the heavy community is of the belief that once an individual can no longer swing a stick or take the physical abuse of heavy fighting they shoot archery “’cuz it’s easy”.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>So what are we to do? At most events archery is tucked in the back forty, out of sight and out of mind. If, at every chance, we could bring archery out in front of the populace they would begin to understand that to hit a 4 inch bull’s eye at 40 yards or more consistently takes a great deal of skill. Or getting off 6 – 10 shafts in 30 seconds is not something just any ol’ archer is capable of. The Grand Exhibition Tournament at Gulf Wars is one major effort to bring archery to the populace. Personally I would like to see it improved to involve the spectators a bit more but it is a step in the right direction.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>So the responsibility is on our collective shoulders – bring archery out from its hidden location in the back forty. Show our skill to the populace. Perhaps then these erroneous perceptions of archers and the skill level required to be a good archer will subside and respect for our craft will increase. We can only hope………</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>cog</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Archers mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Archers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br><a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>