<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-style-name:msochpdefault;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.apple-style-span
{mso-style-name:apple-style-span;}
span.emailstyle18
{mso-style-name:emailstyle18;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#000000" vlink="#000000"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t know that a fourth peerage including archers really makes archers “part of chivalry”. Are laurels and pelicans part of chiv? “I stab you with my knitting needle!” Peerage to me simply means that an individual has reached the highest possible level of their craft within the SCA. Sad to say, but I know of “knights” who don’t even have a defined persona, but they sure fight well………… To me, peers are individuals that represent what we should all be striving to achieve in this game. Sadly, not all peers fit that model.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The other and perhaps main factor against a fourth peerage is the obvious, the SCA is run by the Chivalry. Our system of selecting kings proves the point. Historically this is NOT always how kings were selected. Yes, yes, heritage, but also the individual who was the best leader and organizer and commanded loyalty became the king. The Mongols are an example culture and look what they accomplished. But in the SCA only a heavy fighter, and often only one who is a knight, sits the throne. I have had many discussions with heavies, not just members of the chiv, about the animosity against archers. I understand their point of view. Archers take people out at distance and the heavy “never even gets to hit them”. They don’t like that. Most heavies think being able to hit a 4 inch target at 20 , 30, 40 yards or more is easy. We archers know the truth of that. But the perception is that when you are too old to fight heavy, you take up archery. The perception that archery was NEVER done by nobles in period also exists, wrong, but exists.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thus the deck is stacked against archers ever having their own peerage or being “equals” with the chiv based on stupidity, ignorance of history, and bias. But, as evidenced by Janyn recently and Lorelei in the past, as well as many others on this list, could an archer not be recognized for their “art form” by being elevated to a laurel? Let’s be honest, most archers who we all look up to make a lot of their own gear and do a beautiful job of it and can talk for hours about the history of their craft. Are these not attributes of a laurel? Archers come much closer to sheep-to-shawl than most laurels have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just my two cents worth,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>cog<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jamie Frailey<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> loreleielkins@aol.com<br><b>Cc:</b> archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 16<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think the problem with archers is that the Chiv does consider archery a chivalric weapons form. I think if you break it down one can see that might be true since there is no close engagement. But archers behavior and the investment in our discipline certainly is chivalric.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:27 AM, <a href="mailto:loreleielkins@aol.com">loreleielkins@aol.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I think that one of the issues was the the Chiv was so unitedly opposed to including archers included in a 4th peerage. :-) I guess we scare them. But, draw your own conclusions. The survey and results are posted at <a href="http://www.sca.org"><span style='color:windowtext'>www.sca.org</span></a>. It is an interesting read. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Lorelei<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Janyn Fletcher <<a href="mailto:janynfletcher@comcast.net"><span style='color:windowtext'>janynfletcher@comcast.net</span></a>><br>To: loreleielkins <<a href="mailto:loreleielkins@aol.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>loreleielkins@aol.com</span></a>>; jamie <<a href="mailto:jamie@designbyfive.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>jamie@designbyfive.com</span></a>>; archers <<a href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"><span style='color:windowtext'>archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</span></a>><br>Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:45 pm<br>Subject: RE: [Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 16<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_1_d471e938-7981-4695-8e3b-6e4a2c981620"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent mine a few minutes ago. I had heard at Pennsic that the positive responses were less than 50% and maybe this is why they are asking for more support? This confuses me because I could not imagine any active and involved archers not supporting this??? Lorelei is right, now is the time to be heard. Take a minute and send your thoughts in.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>YIS, Janyn<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Jamie Frailey<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:jamie@designbyfive.com"><u><span style='color:blue'>jamie@designbyfive.com</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>c. 443.834.8141<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>p. 443.615.7264<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>225 East Redwood Street, 3rd Floor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Baltimore, MD 21202<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>