<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>It was not my intent to characterize our DEM as being autocratic and my apologies if that is the way it came across. I am a very process-oriented person (my job requires it), so I questioned the idea of starting the program then building the theoretical rules around it as we go. I just did not get the idea from the original message that the mechanics of the program was already in the works. Obviously, it has been studied by a smaller group of folks, so I'm OK with that and withdraw my complaint.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>With regard to our younger marshals, I do not dispute that individual minors show maturity and wisdom we normally associate with with adults. I've known a lot of teenagers that show more responsibility than adults. I also know a lot of adults that are very immature and responsible....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some additional questions I have are: Do we have enough interest from the teenagers to make this a sustainable program or is this an attempt to create a need where one does not exist? Will we see it go down the same path as the Tournament of Chivalry which was intended to get our teens involved in the leadership of running events? If the answer to these is "no", I think we should continue to judge these on a case by case basis rather than making a formal program out of it. My opinion is that it is easier to exercise well-reasoned judgement calls rather than legislating for every possibility--and it reduces our paperwork.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>In service,</DIV>
<DIV>Eldred</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 6/2/11, Marco da Verona <I><marcodaverona@earthlink.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Marco da Verona <marcodaverona@earthlink.net><BR>Subject: Re: [Archers] Youth Target Archery Marshal Program<BR>To: archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<BR>Date: Thursday, June 2, 2011, 3:42 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Actually, there have been other youth Marshals, whom have now grown to adults and now serve us as Marshals in Atlantia.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Both children of our old Friend Allen of Wolfhowe, Bubba and his sister, and excuse me, I so forget her name but not her face….</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So, this is not a NEW program, just refreshed.</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Marco</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>loreleielkins@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:23 PM<BR><B>To:</B> archers@atlantia.sca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Archers] Youth Target Archery Marshal Program</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1134093065AOLMsgPart_1_d144b15c-81a5-419d-8d83-33f1f1b74b25>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">My friends, </SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You most certainly DO have input on what goes on, as I promised I would do in my term as DEM. I have in no way broken that agreement. That is why I posted the information to this list. Your input is needed on the structure and details of the program, which are not set yet.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No, I did not ask everyone if we should or should not have such a program in the first place, as that was <I>my</I> call and those whom I asked or volunteered to contribute ideas for a Youth Marshal in Training program. </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There is a<I> very</I> good reason why we have a young man already a Youth Marshal in Training. It is not a reason I am prepared to discuss in a public forum. If you have an overwhelming need to know, you can contact me privately.</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Lorelei</SPAN></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Holly Gibbons <<A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=holly0920@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com">holly0920@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To: archers <<A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A>><BR>Sent: Thu, Jun 2, 2011 10:47 am<BR>Subject: Re: [Archers] Youth Target Archery Marshal Program</SPAN></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">To my fellow archery marshals:</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">I am in agreement with Eldred's thoughtful and insightful comments.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">I, too, was under the impression that this new program was a proposal under consideration and that Atlantia's archery marshals were being asked for feedback, when in fact we have just heard the program's already decided and already announced and apparently already populated with at least one youth. It seems our opinions as marshals had and will have no bearing on the program which we are now asked to implement.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">I know this is a top-down monarchy, this game we play, so I will gladly do whatever I'm told. But the hypocrisy kind of bothers me. Am I even allowed to voice this without fear that I am too insubordinate?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">Nuala</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111"> </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">Original Message: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 17:48:10 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Eldred AElfwald <<A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dragonazure@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:dragonazure@yahoo.com"><SPAN class=yiv1134093065yshortcuts>dragonazure@yahoo.com</SPAN></A>><BR>To: <A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=archers@atlantia.sca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:archers@atlantia.sca.org"><SPAN class=yiv1134093065yshortcuts>archers@atlantia.sca.org</SPAN></A>, <A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tazzi_693@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:tazzi_693@yahoo.com"><SPAN class=yiv1134093065yshortcuts>tazzi_693@yahoo.com</SPAN></A>, <A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Geldamar@aol.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Geldamar@aol.com"><SPAN
class=yiv1134093065yshortcuts>Geldamar@aol.com</SPAN></A>,<BR> <A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=loreleielkins@aol.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:loreleielkins@aol.com"><SPAN class=yiv1134093065yshortcuts>loreleielkins@aol.com</SPAN></A><BR>Subject: Re: [Archers] Youth Target Archery Marshal Program<BR>Greetings fellow archers and marshals!</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111"><BR>Considering Their Majesties' desire to align the laws and policies of Atlantia, I would recommend setting the YTAM age at 16 years old.? This is the age they are permitted to authorize for heavy combat and the age at which the Chancellor of Youth Activities has set for their?Officers:<BR>1.7.2.9.2.2.1 All Chancellors Minor must be at least 16 years of age and a paid member of the SCA. <BR><BR>Also, does this program fall under the same rules and regulations as the Youth Activities programs? E.g. background checks?<BR><BR>I'm a little disturbed that the deed has been done without a discussion of the potential rules changes first. If we collectively agree to a policy that is contrary to what has been done, I have no problem "grandfathering" the existing marshals into the program because it would be unfair to force them out "ex post facto".</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=yiv1134093065MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #111111">In service,<BR>Eldred AElfwald</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1134093065AOLMsgPart_3_bed6f62e-596e-4420-9ecf-dcf09d1e0bd3><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black">_______________________________________________</SPAN></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Archers mailing list</SPAN></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><A href="http://us.mc305.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A></SPAN></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white"><TT><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><A href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</A></SPAN></TT></PRE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
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