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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Greetings All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have some of these 3Rivers bodkin points,
and while I haven't used them on arrows yet, I have shot some similar period
style bodkin points into a couple of types of (my own) targets without
significant damage, but I have intentionally avoided other types. Part of
my concern has been the potential difficulty of removing the arrow from a tightly
packed target material, since the bodkins I was shooting had sockets larger
than the shaft, but that shouldn't be a problem with the 3Rivers points. I
have found that haybails or target butts made of stacked layers of foam work
well for bodkins. I have also shot a swallowtail broadhead into a
pumpkin, but that's another story. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As for using these points in an SCA target
shoot , I would leave it to the discretion of the MiC and the owner of the
targets. The risk of damage all depends on the type of material the target is
made of, and how much the owner of the target cares about reusing it. If
they consider the damage to their targets acceptable, I don't think we should
prohibit it. The rule says "No broadheads or tips that cause
excessive damage to the targets shall be used ...." . As was
pointed out, these are not broadheads, and if the owner of the target considers
the damage to be acceptable, then be definition it is not excessive. Of
course, if the targets happen to be balloons or clay pigeons, then I would say
that no amount of damage would be excessive. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would encourage anyone who would like to
use arrows of this type to make some and bring them to events, as long as they fully
understand that they might not be able to use them at most events, and that
they are willing to accept the decision of the MiC/target owners without argument.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tnek<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>loreleielkins@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, March 15, 2011 1:06
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ggg9y@virginia.edu;
Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Archers] Legality of
3Rivers large bodkins</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My mistake Lord Mungo. I read your
message too quickly, I apologize. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> I know the points you are talking
about and they do indeed damage the targets. This might be one of those,
"at the discretion of the MiC", since it is more than
likely the MiC's targets which are being shot up. While I agree that they
are nice for the period look, I wouldn't encourage their use, just because they
can potentially cause so much damage. Now if we had some nice period
targets to shoot at.....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Anyone else have thoughts on this?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lorelei<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu><br>
To: Archers <Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org><br>
Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:15 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Legality of 3Rivers large bodkins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_63628cc1-b5f7-41d2-9abd-9009d6e09a49">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lady Lorelei and friends,<br>
<br>
But these are not broadheads, just big bodkins, actually weighing about 180
grains and about 3/8" across. Some archers might think they are legal
because they AREN'T broadheads. If somebody shows up with these on our range, I
am going to take a literal interpretation of the Society rule: "No
broadheads or tips that cause excessive damage to the targets shall be used
...." 3Rivers also sells a smaller version at about 140 grains which
I haven't measured. I think the damage potential would be similar.<br>
<br>
If anyone just has to shoot traditional arrows, they can still use the
125-grain Ace faux medieval points or the equivalent that 3Rivers and some
English vendors offer (so-called "mod-bods"). These have always been
legal in Atlantia, AFAIK. I can't see why anybody would want to shoot such
heavy points with our light target bows anyway. Their arrows would drop like a
stone.<br>
<br>
Too bad in a way, because those big bodkins are really cool points. I have them
on my 3/8" living history arrows, but those shafts are only for display
and looking cool in my quiver at demonstrations.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Lord Mungo, Shire of Isenfir TA Marshal<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/15/2011 11:48 AM, <a href="mailto:loreleielkins@aol.com">loreleielkins@aol.com</a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Greetings! Yes, you nailed it.
Target points should be used on archery targets. Target backs can
be expensive. Broadheads are meant to penetrate flesh, not foam.
:-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Garth G. Groff <a href="mailto:ggg9y@virginia.edu"><ggg9y@virginia.edu></a><br>
To: Archers <a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"><Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org></a><br>
Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:45 am<br>
Subject: [Archers] Legality of 3Rivers large bodkins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_a7f76af6-38cd-427a-9bfd-e773adb18ea6"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Noble friends of the bow,</span></font></tt><tt><font
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>Lorelei</span></font></tt><tt><font
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>The question was raised in my recent TA Marshal class about the legality <o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>of the 3Rivers large bodkins. These are very large, and look like they <o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>might do a lot of damage to a target. Does anyone have any views on <o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>these, vis-vis the Society rule against broadheads because of their <o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>potential to rip up a target?<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir Target Archery Marshal<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Archers mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
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style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
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style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
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style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
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