<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Dear Atalntian Archers:</DIV>
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<DIV>COG: I hear that you wish to sit on the sidelines, and I must say that if you cannot bring a positive energy to our efforts, or a rational voice to our discussions (judging by "kit"?) it is for the best. Thank you for bowing out. It is gracious of you.</DIV>
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<DIV>To reiterate, in defensive response to the tirades, every archer among us would like a broad and open shoot, but dreams must also have a root in real soil. We must aim for what we can reasonably achieve. There already exists a populace shoot. I do not wish to reinvent that wheel: we cannot upstage, outdo, or replicate the existing archery activities at Pennsic. If we take that tack, we are dead in the water.</DIV>
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<DIV>Our point of dissention seems to be over mathematical projections. We may not need to limit the number of archers after all - - that remains to be seen and is not a vital point in our discussion. But the question apparently is indeed a nexus of great contention among us. I am neither here nor there in judging the relative merits of "elitism," I am merely trying to dwell in the realm of possibilty.</DIV>
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<DIV>Nuala of Needwood Forest</DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "archers-request@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" <archers-request@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, November 1, 2010 9:38:32 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Archers Digest, Vol 86, Issue 1<BR></FONT><BR>Send Archers mailing list submissions to<BR> <A href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org<BR><BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR> <A href="mailto:archers-request@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
ymailto="mailto:archers-request@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-request@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR> <A href="mailto:archers-owner@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers-owner@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-owner@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of Archers digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR> 1. the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL (Holly Gibbons)<BR> 2. Re: the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL (Janyn Fletcher)<BR> 3. Re: the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL (<A href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com" ymailto="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</A>)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Holly Gibbons <<A
href="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com">holly0920@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To: <A href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>Subject: [Archers] the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL<BR>Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:803473.86813.qm@web111620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:803473.86813.qm@web111620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com">803473.86813.qm@web111620.mail.gq1.yahoo.com</A>><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR><BR>To the?Scattered?Archers of Atlantia:<BR>?<BR>Thanks for weighing in on the Pennsic question, COG. Experience is always the <BR>best teacher. Even though I am rather a new kid on the block, I refuse to be <BR>disuaded from this effort just because it hasn't worked out in the past. We can <BR>always keep trying and perhaps by sheer force of persistence, we will get <BR>somewhere this year. You never know
when your luck will turn.<BR>?<BR>However, COG, I am puzzled by your promotion of a two-day <BR>populace-championship?shoot. Are you in fact volunteering to run this thing and <BR>give up your Pennsic? Because?if you are not, then I believe we'd better stick <BR>to what we were working on, which is a short, expert-level, single day shoot <BR>that will not (hopefully) overtax any one individual. I'd like to focus on the <BR>possible.<BR>?<BR>Siegfried, thanks for your hilarious and so spot-on suggestion about naming the <BR>shoot! I love it! Henceforth to be known as the St. Sebastian Prize . . . . this <BR>surely clears the air and takes the problematic and contentious words like <BR>"championship" and "Pennsic" and "known world" completely out of the ring.?And <BR>think of the possible?prizes! A handmade museum-piece reliquary containing linen <BR>threads from the very holy bowstring of our dearest Patron Saint of Archery, <BR>Saint
Sebastian!<BR>?<BR>We've gotten pretty close on this discussion board to a consensus on many of the <BR>elements?we forsee in this shoot. It will be at Pennsic; ?it will be completely <BR>outside the Pennsic war;??it will go up and get shot and come down before <BR>cocktail hour; ?it will be a concerted and joint effort by Atlantia's archers <BR>and their best eight?targets; ?it will be an individual championship; <BR>and?finally, it will be as inclusive as possible given the very real constraints <BR>of time and logistics.<BR>?<BR>At this point, I am going to go out on a limb and propose?that we form a <BR>committee to take this beyond the drawing board. I volunteer myself only because <BR>I am really tenacious and passionate and as far as I know, am the only person to <BR>freely (stupidly?) offer?to take this on, and I volunteer Lorelei and <BR>Janyn?(hope that's ok, guys!)?because they have wisdom and power and are very <BR>politic and nice to work
with.?A number of individuals have volunteered to help <BR>with the shoot and prizes and targets and several have sent in numerous great <BR>ideas (yay!) Anyone else up for the politicking? Our first order of business is <BR>to draw up a document that outlines our task ahead and all the variables and <BR>possibilities, so we know we are on the same page, and our second order of <BR>business is to find out to whom we should be looking for help?in the Mid Realm <BR>and East powers-that-be.?<BR>?<BR>When you really think about this, every archer out there should be happy about <BR>this initiative: it can only be positive for archery, for archery at pennsic, <BR>and for archery in all our kingdoms. We must stop thinking of this as an <BR>adversarial quest and try to share our joyful vision instead.<BR>?<BR>Nuala of Needwood Forest<BR><BR><BR> <BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL:
<http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/pipermail/archers-atlantia.sca.org/attachments/20101101/71bc04bc/attachment-0001.htm><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 21:12:17 -0400<BR>From: "Janyn Fletcher" <<A href="mailto:janynfletcher@comcast.net" ymailto="mailto:janynfletcher@comcast.net">janynfletcher@comcast.net</A>><BR>To: "'Holly Gibbons'" <<A href="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com">holly0920@yahoo.com</A>>,<BR> <<A href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [Archers] the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL<BR>Message-ID: <000c01cb7a2b$031bb140$095313c0$@net><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>Holly your enthusiasm is inspiring to us all! As I stated in a prior post, I<BR>would be more than willing to
volunteer as this has been something I have<BR>been pushing since I joined the SCA and my first Pennsic in 2008. I am there<BR>for archery, so I also would be willing to help run whatever we propose. I<BR>couldn't agree more with COG and I would like to see a multi-day event<BR>because I think for those archers, (and there are plenty) that don't<BR>participate in the war, they would appreciate the event. So, standing by to<BR>help where it is needed..<BR><BR><BR><BR>Janyn<BR><BR><BR><BR>From: <A href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A>] On Behalf Of Holly<BR>Gibbons<BR>Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:44 PM<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>Subject: [Archers] the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL<BR><BR><BR><BR>To the Scattered Archers of Atlantia:<BR><BR><BR><BR>Thanks for weighing in on the Pennsic question, COG. Experience is always<BR>the best teacher. Even though I am rather a new kid on the block, I refuse<BR>to be disuaded from this effort just because it hasn't worked out in the<BR>past. We can always keep trying and perhaps by sheer force of persistence,<BR>we will get somewhere this year. You never know when your luck will turn.<BR><BR><BR><BR>However, COG, I am puzzled by your promotion of a two-day<BR>populace-championship shoot. Are you in fact volunteering to run this thing<BR>and give up your Pennsic? Because if you are not, then I believe we'd better<BR>stick to what we were working on, which is a short, expert-level, single
day<BR>shoot that will not (hopefully) overtax any one individual. I'd like to<BR>focus on the possible.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Siegfried, thanks for your hilarious and so spot-on suggestion about naming<BR>the shoot! I love it! Henceforth to be known as the St. Sebastian Prize . .<BR>. . this surely clears the air and takes the problematic and contentious<BR>words like "championship" and "Pennsic" and "known world" completely out of<BR>the ring. And think of the possible prizes! A handmade museum-piece<BR>reliquary containing linen threads from the very holy bowstring of our<BR>dearest Patron Saint of Archery, Saint Sebastian!<BR><BR><BR><BR>We've gotten pretty close on this discussion board to a consensus on many of<BR>the elements we forsee in this shoot. It will be at Pennsic; it will be<BR>completely outside the Pennsic war; it will go up and get shot and come<BR>down before cocktail hour; it will be a concerted and joint effort
by<BR>Atlantia's archers and their best eight targets; it will be an individual<BR>championship; and finally, it will be as inclusive as possible given the<BR>very real constraints of time and logistics.<BR><BR><BR><BR>At this point, I am going to go out on a limb and propose that we form a<BR>committee to take this beyond the drawing board. I volunteer myself only<BR>because I am really tenacious and passionate and as far as I know, am the<BR>only person to freely (stupidly?) offer to take this on, and I volunteer<BR>Lorelei and Janyn (hope that's ok, guys!) because they have wisdom and power<BR>and are very politic and nice to work with. A number of individuals have<BR>volunteered to help with the shoot and prizes and targets and several have<BR>sent in numerous great ideas (yay!) Anyone else up for the politicking? Our<BR>first order of business is to draw up a document that outlines our task<BR>ahead and all the variables and possibilities, so
we know we are on the same<BR>page, and our second order of business is to find out to whom we should be<BR>looking for help in the Mid Realm and East powers-that-be. <BR><BR><BR><BR>When you really think about this, every archer out there should be happy<BR>about this initiative: it can only be positive for archery, for archery at<BR>pennsic, and for archery in all our kingdoms. We must stop thinking of this<BR>as an adversarial quest and try to share our joyful vision instead.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Nuala of Needwood Forest<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/pipermail/archers-atlantia.sca.org/attachments/20101101/e4b232a3/attachment-0001.htm><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 21:32:51 -0400<BR>From: <<A href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com"
ymailto="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</A>><BR>To: Holly Gibbons <<A href="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com">holly0920@yahoo.com</A>>,<BR> <A href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Archers] the St. Sebastian Prize at Pennsic XL<BR>Message-ID: <20101102013251.ZGK7L.14972.root@cdptpa-web20-z02><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<BR><BR>Strictly for purpose of clarification: <BR>I suggested a two day shoot so that every person interested could have the opportunity to shoot, day one being qualification, day two being the actual shoot. It is my experience that the "greatest archer" in one kingdom can't hold the quiver of another kingdom's champion runner up. But perceptions exist and should be dealt with.<BR><BR>Now as for running it
and giving up my Pennsic, perhaps because I have been to enough Pennsics to have actually made a wind chime out of the medalions I would not consider working two days as giving up my Pennsic. I have done such for numerous occasions before, i.e. my lady runs the night throw at Pennsic. HOWEVER, as one who has been instrumental in every SAAD except the last one, Lorelei forbid me to do anything much to my consternation so next time I return the "favor", running archery shoots and not shooting them does not ruin my vacation. (I have actually shot only ONE SAAD.) Like many on this list, seeing others derive joy from my time well spent is pay back enough and makes any and all sacrifice worth it.<BR><BR>I have voiced my opinion that I think the populace shoots are exceptionaly boring and totally lack creativity. Gulf Wars uses the same boring populace shoots but seems to have interesting novelty shoots every day. So I'm all
in favor of "something different" and support any and all efforts. While it may not have come to fruition before, if it does next year I applaud the efforts.<BR><BR>I do question how it is possible to have a "popluace shoot" restricted to only the "better archers". Do we judge by completness of kit? i.e. the kid who wears a cheap cotton tunic over jeans and tennis shoes, is he allowed to shoot? Or do we look at RR scores? And where is the line drawn there as each kingdom seems to have different cut off lines for each grouping. Perhaps we simply say "you can't shoot unless your RR score is 85 or higher". OK, but what if the archer is an amazing archer but doesn't shoot RR's because they've been in for a long time and think RRs are boring? Or how do we check their RR scores?<BR><BR>Like Siegfried I only offer personal experience to assist and in a helpful manneer and intent. It is NOT my intention to
desuade nor derail any attempt to make Pennsic Archery more interesting. Lord knows we need some infusion of creativity! But, like Siegfried, it has been my job to act as buffer between those who like to complain and tear down and those who choose to build and applaud efforts. Personally I feel if we do not point out pit falls we have experienced before they will only be fallen into once again and the best efforts........well you know how that ends.<BR><BR>So, having been there, done that, fought those battles, and have the scars, I shall sit on the side lines and applaud any and all efforts. Should you have effectily enticed Lorelei to enter into this fray then, as usual, I shall support that lady in any and all ways I can. She deserves it and it is the least I can do for her.<BR><BR>cog bowing out.....................................<BR><BR>---- Holly Gibbons <<A href="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com"
ymailto="mailto:holly0920@yahoo.com">holly0920@yahoo.com</A>> wrote: <BR>> To the?Scattered?Archers of Atlantia:<BR>?<BR>Thanks for weighing in on the Pennsic question, COG. Experience is always the <BR>best teacher. Even though I am rather a new kid on the block, I refuse to be <BR>disuaded from this effort just because it hasn't worked out in the past. We can <BR>always keep trying and perhaps by sheer force of persistence, we will get <BR>somewhere this year. You never know when your luck will turn.<BR>?<BR>However, COG, I am puzzled by your promotion of a two-day <BR>populace-championship?shoot. Are you in fact volunteering to run this thing and <BR>give up your Pennsic? Because?if you are not, then I believe we'd better stick <BR>to what we were working on, which is a short, expert-level, single day shoot <BR>that will not (hopefully) overtax any one individual. I'd like to focus on the <BR>possible.<BR>?<BR>Siegfried, thanks for your
hilarious and so spot-on suggestion about naming the <BR>shoot! I love it! Henceforth to be known as the St. Sebastian Prize . . . . this <BR>surely clears the air and takes the problematic and contentious words like <BR>"championship" and "Pennsic" and "known world" completely out of the ring.?And <BR>think of the possible?prizes! A handmade museum-piece reliquary containing linen <BR>threads from the very holy bowstring of our dearest Patron Saint of Archery, <BR>Saint Sebastian!<BR>?<BR>We've gotten pretty close on this discussion board to a consensus on many of the <BR>elements?we forsee in this shoot. It will be at Pennsic; ?it will be completely <BR>outside the Pennsic war;??it will go up and get shot and come down before <BR>cocktail hour; ?it will be a concerted and joint effort by Atlantia's archers <BR>and their best eight?targets; ?it will be an individual championship; <BR>and?finally, it will be as inclusive as possible given the very real
constraints <BR>of time and logistics.<BR>?<BR>At this point, I am going to go out on a limb and propose?that we form a <BR>committee to take this beyond the drawing board. I volunteer myself only because <BR>I am really tenacious and passionate and as far as I know, am the only person to <BR>freely (stupidly?) offer?to take this on, and I volunteer Lorelei and <BR>Janyn?(hope that's ok, guys!)?because they have wisdom and power and are very <BR>politic and nice to work with.?A number of individuals have volunteered to help <BR>with the shoot and prizes and targets and several have sent in numerous great <BR>ideas (yay!) Anyone else up for the politicking? Our first order of business is <BR>to draw up a document that outlines our task ahead and all the variables and <BR>possibilities, so we know we are on the same page, and our second order of <BR>business is to find out to whom we should be looking for help?in the Mid Realm <BR>and East
powers-that-be.?<BR>?<BR>When you really think about this, every archer out there should be happy about <BR>this initiative: it can only be positive for archery, for archery at pennsic, <BR>and for archery in all our kingdoms. We must stop thinking of this as an <BR>adversarial quest and try to share our joyful vision instead.<BR>?<BR>Nuala of Needwood Forest<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Archers mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" ymailto="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org<BR><BR><BR>End of Archers Digest, Vol 86, Issue 1<BR>**************************************<BR></DIV></DIV></div><br>
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