<p>Hi,<br>
Oh yes, each kingdom has different rules, customs, and "the way its always been done." </p>
<p> I was specifically referring to the dropped arrow rule - An Tir's Book of Target, has a specific rule for dropped arrows. </p>
<p>As this discussion is about dropped arrows and the lack of kingdom wide rule in Atlantia.</p>
<p>Shooting two arrows at one time..*wide eyes* ..certainly that is a most dangerous thing, and shouldn't ever be done. "Ducking out of Janyn, Seamus, and Godai's reach, before she gets boxed about the ears."</p>
<p>Yes, sometimes, its best to just go eat ice cream in the food court. </p>
<p>Lady Anne Rose Smythe<br></p>
<p>On Aug 27, 2010 9:03 AM, "John Atkins" <<a href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> Lady Anne,<br>> Unfortunately the rules for SCA activities are not consistent among all<br>
> the kingdoms. Some kingdoms, Atlantia, says for archers to straddle the<br>> shooting line, some, Trimaris, don't. Some kingdoms, Atlantia, allow<br>> two arrows for the first shot of a timed round, some don't, Glen Ahbend.<br>
> Some kingdoms, East, allow rifle stocks on crossbows, some, Atlantia,<br>> don't. These variances in rules do cause some confusion for archers<br>> when we travel around or go to war. However, getting every single<br>
> kingdom to agree on a set of rules would be harder than controlling the<br>> weather! The best answer is, learn the rules for your home kingdom.<br>> When you travel to other kingdoms or war and you get "cautioned" about a<br>
> minor rule infraction (hopefully not something as drastic as your<br>> crossbow has a rifle stock and that kingdom does not allow them) accept<br>> it and live with it. I don't say this as a chastisement, just a caution<br>
> of what you can expect to encounter within the SCA. I can still see<br>> Enequy's face when the marshal at Gulf Wars told him he could not start<br>> his timed round with two arrows. Picture a kid who just had their ice<br>
> cream cone taken away!<br>> <br>> Now to the issue of shooting two arrows at once, perhaps this comes<br>> merely as a heads up but take it as you will. During the first part of<br>> the first week at this year's Pennsic I was on the range with about 3<br>
> other folks. They were shooting other stations but we crossed paths a<br>> few times. One fellow told me he was going to ask Squirrel if he could<br>> set and run the Champion's Shoot next year. I say this only to put him<br>
> in context if you know who he is as I have long since forgotten his<br>> name. He was discussing the shooting of two arrows. His point is that<br>> it is a highly dangerous act. I gently told him a lady in my area, our<br>
> very own Lorelei, does it all the time and safely. To emphasize his<br>> point, he nocked two arrows and shot them saying "there, see? You can't<br>> control them. Look at that spread!" He shot his arrows about 25 yards<br>
> and they landed about 1 1/2 feet apart. I again told him of Lorelei and<br>> that she regularly gets her two arrows inside the red at 20 yards. But<br>> his point was that he plans on taking his "issue" to the highest<br>
> authority and have it outlawed. He maintains that there are archers who<br>> can safely shoot two arrows but if a novice saw this and tried it that<br>> it would digress into a very unsafe act. I then asked him about the<br>
> holding of arrows in the bow hand during a speed round. That seemed to<br>> perplex him at which point I did my exit stage left and continued<br>> shooting. I relay this story only in that there may be a remote<br>
> possibility that a rule may be considered from the SCA marshal<br>> concerning shooting two arrows at the same time. My position is that<br>> those I know who do it are no safety hazard to the range. If a person<br>
> is having difficulty doing it, and it should be obvious, a safe, good<br>> marshal will step in and tell them not to do it. Much like stepping<br>> over the line to pick up a dropped arrow.<br>> <br>> cog<br>
> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Summer Rain [mailto:<a href="mailto:summerrain.wa@gmail.com">summerrain.wa@gmail.com</a>] <br>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:41 AM<br>> To: John Atkins<br>> Cc: Garth G. Groff; <a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Dropped arrows rule<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Hi,<br>> I'm going to chime in. As a new archer, I was told to leave a dropped<br>> arrow on the ground regardless of where it landed. I thought it was<br>
> already in the rules. <br>> <br>> If you look at other kingdom archery rules, they specifically mention<br>> dropped arrows. Please remember, that for a new archer, it doesn't<br>> matter where the arrow lands, if they are taught it is okay to pick it<br>
> up in one instance,and not another, it can become second nature to stoop<br>> and pick one up, without forthought of safety.<br>> <br>> My thought and what I was taught was if an arrow is on the ground, it<br>
> stays there until all bows are down. <br>> <br>> Now, what about bounced arrows?<br>> <br>> In Service,<br>> Lady Anne Rose Smythe<br>> Novice<br>> <br>> <br>> On Aug 27, 2010 8:13 AM, "John Atkins" <<a href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I'm in agreement about the dropped arrow doesn't count thoughts here.<br>>> We ARE out here for the fun of it, not to penalize folks.<br>>> <br>>> As for the stepping over the line, we have a rule to cover that. As<br>
> for<br>>> picking up a shaft at one's feet, to me this goes right back to the<br>>> quality of the marshal running the line. I have seen marshals<br>> "running"<br>>> the line while sitting under a sun shade 10 feet back and 20 feet off<br>
>> the end of the line. I have seen marshals, at Pennsic, so involved in<br>>> "teaching/instructing" someone they are not watching the line. To my<br>>> way of thinking these are marshals who should have their warrants<br>
>> pulled. A marshal is a safety officer. We have some basic rules to<br>>> fall back on but, as stated in the rules, the marshal is the final<br>> word<br>>> on the range. i.e. atlatl can occur on the arhcery range if the<br>
> marshal<br>>> is comfortable with it, otherwise no atlatl. Not everyone who<br>> expresses<br>>> an interest in becoming a marshal should be warranted as a marshal.<br>>> There has to be a judgement on the warranting body of the individual's<br>
>> ability to be a GOOD safety officer. You can't write rules that<br>> prevent<br>>> stupid. I know, I've seen too much of it!<br>>> <br>>> cog<br>>> <br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a>] On Behalf Of Garth<br>
> G.<br>>> Groff<br>>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:46 AM<br>>> To: <a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [Archers] Dropped arrows rule<br>
>> <br>>> <br>>> Lord Siegfried,<br>>> <br>>> Thanks for the clarification. On searching my failing memory, I think <br>>> counting a dropped arrow as a shot was the way we did it in college (a<br>
> <br>>> very long, long time ago!). That was then, this is now.<br>>> <br>>> When it comes to making more rules, I completely agree with you. That <br>>> could go on ad nauseum. And since there is now no rule concerning<br>
> this, <br>>> it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.<br>>> <br>>> As for stooping over to pick up dropped arrows, I'm still against this<br>> <br>>> purely as a safety matter. What I don't want to see is any archer on<br>
> my <br>>> line rooting around under somebody else's legs for an arrow. And if an<br>> <br>>> arrow is beyond the archer's lead foot, I want it to stay there. Your <br>>> bolt quiver is a different situation than I was thinking of, and the <br>
>> same is true for drawing arrows from ground quivers.<br>>> <br>>> Kind regards,<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir Target Archery Marshal.<br>>> <br>>> Siegfried wrote:<br>
>>> Greetings Mungo ... I'll chime in with my experiences/thoughts<br>>>><br>>>> On the 'counts as a shot':<br>>>><br>>>> I've never seen that applied in the SCA. If you fumble and drop<br>
>>> something, whoops, grab another from your quiver. So no, tradition<br>>>> indicates that if you didn't 'shoot it', it wasn't a 'shot'. We<br>>>> shouldn't be trying to find ways to penalize shooters, instead of <br>
>>> letting them have fun.<br>>>><br>>>> (In fact, I've seen this applied so far as to discount any 'thrown' <br>>>> arrows, on purpose or by accident as well. Since again, if it wasn't <br>
>>> shot, it wasn't shot)<br>>>><br>>>> On the safety rule:<br>>>><br>>>> You are correct, noone should be reaching over a line to pick up an <br>>>> arrow.<br>>>><br>
>>> (Of course, the situation is somewhat complicated by "How far away<br>> did<br>>>> it drop", etc. As a standing crossbowman, I bend over at a 90degree<br>>> to<br>>>> load my crossbow and draw bolts from a leg quiver. If a bolt drops <br>
>>> right next to my feet, or maybe a foot in front of them, I don't bend<br>>>> any more than normal to snag it. However it's a very different<br>>>> situation when a bolt/arrow falls 3 foot in front of the line, and <br>
>>> someone 'leans out' or 'steps out' to get it. EEEK)<br>>>><br>>>> And in all honesty, at THAT point, it's covered by the "Noone shall <br>>>> enter the safety zone during active shooting" bits, so you really <br>
>>> don't need a separate rule.<br>>>><br>>>> However, also in general, I'd be very hesitant to start listing off <br>>>> every single "You can't do X" rule. As the list would be ginormous. <br>
>>> You can't turn around with a loaded bow. You can't shoot backwards. <br>>>> You can't aim your bow at an 80degree angle while drawing it. You <br>>>> can't poke the guy next to you with an arrow. You can't kick someone <br>
>>> while they are drawing their bow. You can't cut someone's crossbow <br>>>> string while they are aiming ... etc etc etc etc<br>>>><br>>>> Such things, IMO, are best left under "Keep a safe line" and "Keep <br>
>>> everyone out of the safety zone" and for the marshal to inform folks <br>>>> about.<br>>>><br>>>> Siegfried<br>>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Archers mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Archers mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><br>
> <br>> <br></p>