[Archers] Arguments to not ban PVC - was: Re: PVC Pipe Bows

[Siegfried]

Janyn ... While I'm not in favor of seeing loads of PVC bows suddenly
showing up, just because there are, IMO, better options out there...

I'd like to make some arguments as to why we shouldn't make a rule
banning PVC bows at the moment...

1) In general, less rules are better, so unless there is a strong
standing reason to ban these (such as a proven safety issue).  I'd
rather see us not have 'yet another rule'.  Which now marshals are in
charge of knowing, enforcing, etc.

2) From above, there is no 'known safety issue' with these bows.  In
fact it appears that lots of people have been making and using them for
a while.  Mostly there appears to be people going:  "Oh they might be
unsafe" - But we haven't had a rash of 3 PVC bows shattering on the
range within a year, to consider them unsafe.  Nor have we done any sort
of scientific testing on them (or any testing really), to make our own
conclusions.

3) To the arguments that there is 'no way to make a PVC bow not look
like PVC'.   Then folks haven't google'd it much.   People are making
some pretty impressive, period looking bows, out of PVC:
http://is.gd/ghRDYj
http://is.gd/SeMnsb

4) To that end ... You now, if we make a rule stating that they are
illegal.  Now need marshals to be able to look at those above bows, and
know that they are PVC, versus not.   We will need to train marshals to
understand, some way, to actually test/inspect those in a way to prove,
without a doubt, that they are PVC, and therefore illegal.

5) As soon as you do that, you will also get into issues of needing to
define PVC, what variations of PVC are illegal, or not.  Are siloflex
bows legal (As I've seen them used at Pennsic).  How about other
plastics?   What if a commercial kids bow marketed as Fiberglass, is
actually made of extruded PVC?  How will we detect that now that PVC is
banned?

6) And then you get into the situation, as discussed before.   So we ban
PVC, cause a homemade bow of it 'might break'.  But someone can still
make a fiberglass rod crossbow, and use that.   Someone can still make a
fiberglass rod bow, and use that.   Someone can use fiberglass steel
fence tensioners, make a bow, and use that.   Someone who has no idea
how to make a wooden bow, could make one out of 'insert wood type here',
bring it to the range, and have it shatter into 5 pieces the first time
they draw it, while a marshal's face is 1ft from it while inspecting it.

The fact is, that any material can be made safely, or unsafely.  Unless
we have a true, known problem, that is linked specifically to PVC on the
range ... then I don't see why we should make a specific rule banning it
explicitly.   Unless we are going to start down that path of adopting
very rigid construction standards for all bows, and doing scientific
measurements on what brands, what years, what materials, are allowed vs not.

Just another point of view,
Siegfried




On 9/16/12 4:50 PM, Janyn Fletcher wrote:
> So up to this point I have not heard anyone in favor of PVC bows on our
> ranges. I wanted to hear your concerns and opinions, I will give a few more
> days for this discussion and make a decision by mid week. I myself feel they
> have no place on our ranges as I have already stated. With loaner gear being
> readily available and low cost of good used bows, I don't see why we would
> take chances with bows that have no place at our ranges. If you haven't
> commented and would like to, please do.
> 
> 
> In Service,
> 
> Janyn
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Gordon
> Kinnie
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:50 PM
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] PVC Pipe Bows
> 
> Ok, I have to comment.  
> Regardless of safety issues with these PVC bows, and most of my concerns
> have been addressed in previous emails.  
> PVC pipe bows in no way make a period acceptable appearance. As per the SCA
> rules, I make every attempt to make sure the bows on my range have an
> appearance of a Medieval bow.  This includes taping over holes in the metal
> risers for some modern bows, and recommending a more permanent solution.  
> We in Atlantia try to make sure that our appearance on the range is period,
> that we play in the Spirit of the game and it is in our rules to not allow
> any modern style crossbows or handbow. 
> While I may, after a vigorous inspection, allow one of these bows on my
> range for one time, I will most certainly offer another solution to using it
> again.  PVC pipe is PVC pipe and I can not think of a way to make it not
> look like PVC pipe. 
> My two cents worth.
> 
> Godai 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Archers mailing list
> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Archers mailing list
> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
> 

-- 
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/