[Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 28

Thu Feb 16 08:14:23 PST 2012

As his Excellency Colum Maxwell executive assistant (Seamus McRay) I post his comment:

Well said Martelle and right on the money. I know that my A&S work is not up to Laurel standards and if anyone wanted to make me a Pelican I would have to suspect someone owed my money. As for letter writing and recommendations; that works. A friend of mine confided that there were three Society awards desired. One was a Pelican. So I wrote a letter and two months later the Pelican’s had a new member. The other award was more difficult since neither of us were in the kingdom that had the award. But with a little campaigning, the award was granted. (It helped that the person was way overqualified for both awards.) So put in those letters and award nominations. 

However, back to my point about having fourth peerage. Many in the archery community have done as much if not more than the peers have done to get their peerage. Courtesy, honor, Chivalry, Respect, these are found aplenty throughout the society no matter what discipline you follow and should be a requirement for all peerages. But to be an archer I must have knowledge and skill to varying degrees in archery techniques, fletcher, stringmaking, bowyer, teacher, archery service, historical knowledge, dedication to making archery enjoyable for all and promoting archery in the Society. But if I do all these things to be a good archer I will never be a peer in the current system because only a small percentage of these things belong in the three current peerages and will rightly be ignored by those in that particular peerage. Why should a Laurel worry about my RR average, or a Pelican the quality of my quivers. Nor should a knight spend much time thinking about my bowyer skills. But if there were an archery peerage the sum of my efforts would be considered. 

In service,

Colum

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:52 AM, archers-request at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: fourth peerage. (Siegfried)
>   2. Re: fourth peerage. (John Atkins)
>   3. Re: Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 25 (Leif Johnston)
>   4. Nature of peerage ... was: Re:  Archers Digest, Vol 101,
>      Issue 25 (Siegfried)
>   5. Re: fourth peerage. (Jonathas)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:28:48 -0500
> From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] fourth peerage.
> Message-ID: <4F3D20B0.3070909 at crossbows.biz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Well written Baron Colum, and:
> 
>>  And if you think I have done some stuff you should
>> read Siegfrieds crossbow efforts in the artistic realm,
> 
> You honor me more than I deserve.  I just wish that modern life &
> putting this 'thing on my head' hadn't stolen more time from me to allow
> me to continue my research as heavily as I was a few years ago.
> 
> Soon I hope, soon.
> 
> But thank you.  *blushes*
> 
> Siegfried
> 
> 
> -- 
> Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
> http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:34:17 -0500
> From: "John Atkins" <cogworks at triad.rr.com>
> To: "'Siegfried'" <siegfried at crossbows.biz>,
> 	<archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [Archers] fourth peerage.
> Message-ID: <004901ccecc0$727e0840$577a18c0$@triad.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> As we all know metal conducts cold very well and His Excellency Siegfried
> lives where it's cold.  Thus has he admitted on this list to brain freeze
> from a metal head gasket?
> 
> Cog running very fast from a VERY good
> crossbowman.................................................................
> .hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Siegfried
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:29 AM
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] fourth peerage.
> 
> Well written Baron Colum, and:
> 
>>  And if you think I have done some stuff you should read Siegfrieds 
>> crossbow efforts in the artistic realm,
> 
> You honor me more than I deserve.  I just wish that modern life & putting
> this 'thing on my head' hadn't stolen more time from me to allow me to
> continue my research as heavily as I was a few years ago.
> 
> Soon I hope, soon.
> 
> But thank you.  *blushes*
> 
> Siegfried
> 
> 
> --
> Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
> http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Archers mailing list
> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:42:34 -0500
> From: "Leif Johnston" <leif at resourcecompany.com>
> To: <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 25
> Message-ID: <14c301ccecc1$9c861d20$404a0a0a at LeifLT>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An interesting example of this point and being out of the tradtional context
> happened at 2011 KASF. King Bryan at the time, knowing what William Shop Rat
> had done on his own equipment asked him to display it. The level of detail,
> beauty and deep research into his craft was then recognized by the Pearls.
> 
> He worked hard to do his best in his area, which had A&S components but had
> not been presented to the A&S community before. Work was noticed and the
> result was in my opinion the right one to follow.
> 
> It took recognition by someone, encouragement of that person to move out of
> what they had done, work by that person to reflect what they had done
> differently - the way that the A&S folks where used to hearing things and
> poof, he was recognized for his A&S contributions.
> 
> A secondary one is the recent elevation to Laurel of Dante di Pietro.
> Perhaps a closer model since there is no rapier path to Chivalry either. But
> Dante have worked for years to research, report, document, teach and cajole
> others into a historically accurate perspective on rapier work, with in the
> safety contexts that we have. As people spoke on his behalf, they talked
> about the years of work, research, teaching, etc etc.
> 
> It can happen, but we all need to understand how others think and how to
> help them see the good work YOU are doing and how it matches their award
> processes.
> 
> A good example of that was Lady Esperanza's recognition at KASF for her work
> on arrow decoration!
> 
> My two cents are worth 2 cents...
> 
> Wiglaf
> 
> Wiglaf Sigeberhting
> A&S Canton of Sudentorre
> 
> MKA Leif Johnston
> Cell (540) 847 5343
> 
>  _____  
> 
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Martha
> Fletcher
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:17 PM
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 25
> 
> 
> While Colum makes some valid points I would like to address the most serious
> of his complaints...(personal pronouns are not directed at Colum) 
> 
> Why are there no archers in the Pelicans? 
> Why are there no archers in the Laurels?
> 
> I'll tell you why -  Lack of Letters of recomendation. Then lack of updated
> letters of recomendation. Lack of record of work done. 
> 
> You think Lady Pricillia Yew Goddess has the makings of a Peer for her work
> in the archery community? Then by golly speak up for her. DO NOT assume
> someone else has done it.
> 
> When was the last time you wrote a letter to either Order either directly or
> through the online recomendation system? Have you recommended Lord So&So for
> service awards. NOT just archery awards but Serivce and Art awards? Opals,
> Coral Branches, Golden Dolphins, Pearls? 
> 
> Letters for the peerage must be more than "Hey! Make this person a Pelican!
> I think they're great!". Your letters must be specific and show a long time
> level of service to not only your local group but to the Kingdom. Then talk
> to people who you know are Pelicans or Laurels and point a person you feel
> is worthy out to them. We in the Atlantian Archery community know people are
> hard workers because we are around them all the time. But maybe not everyone
> knows what we know. YOU have to go back and update the order you think that
> person is perfect for.
> 
> For the Order of the Laurel. A person has to practice thier HISTORICAL art
> for some time. They have to display a lot. They have to teach a lot. They
> have to make a lot of things well in thier chosen interest and show them
> off. We archers make a lot of targets but who specializes in historical
> archery targets?  Who specializes in making historical bows. Some of us make
> period arrows, but how often do you display them with documentation? What
> about historical research into archery equipment?  As an artisan you have to
> SHOW what you know. Making period arrows as prizes is wonderful and generous
> but they have a limited audience. You give the arrow and then it goes to
> someone's home never to be seen again. Laurels want to see your projects or
> images of your projects. They want to see your research.
> 
> I also will refute the conception that there are no Laurels with archery
> recognition - 
> One of the things that brought Mistress Blitha of Wulfhau to the Laurel's
> attention was her excellent research into Historical Archery targets and
> then making them to be used. 
> 
> As a member of the Order of the Laurel I know how much work it takes to
> reach the level of the Societies Highest Award. I would LOVE to be the
> sponsor of someone who is interested in the historical aspects of archery.
> It's a field that not many take up. But YOU'VE got to be willing to do the
> work. The occasional class won't cut it.
> 
> You want to be a Peer? Then by golly you've got to do the work.
> You want a friend to be a Peer? Then by golly you've got to write the
> letters.
> 
> Trust me on this one, the Peerages DO pay attention when a name is sent
> thier way with good solid letters of recomendations and a record and/or
> images of thier work. 
> 
> yours,
> Martelle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:51:38 -0500
> From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: [Archers] Nature of peerage ... was: Re:  Archers Digest, Vol
> 	101, Issue 25
> Message-ID: <4F3D260A.5050802 at crossbows.biz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Martelle, think you for posting this, it was well written and with some
> great information.
> 
> However, I do believe that there is one aspect that was missed in your
> missive, between this, and current/ancient/ongoing efforts for Peerage
> level recognition for archery/rapier/etc.
> 
> I'll attempt to briefly (I hope, yeah right) discuss:
> 
>> Why are there no archers in the Pelicans?
>> Why are there no archers in the Laurels?
> 
> Well, to that, it's incorrect.  There are archers in the Pelicans, some
> who were given their Pelican specifically for service to archery (Earl
> Mika comes immediately to mind).   There are archers in the Laurels
> (maybe not in this Kingdom off hand), but in many others for their
> historical crafts.  Master Iolo for his crossbows, Master Jean-Paul for
> his research into siege engines, Master James for his bow/crossbow work,
> etc.
> 
> But here is were things fall apart, a bit, and you directly address this:
> 
>> For the Order of the Laurel. A person has to practice thier HISTORICAL
>> art for some time. They have to display a lot. They have to teach a lot.
>> They have to make a lot of things well in thier chosen interest and show
>> them off.
> 
> This is quite correct, and the same can be said for Pelicans to a
> certain art.  Follow the 'path to Pelican', but focusing your service
> towards archery, or rapier, etc.  And you will be noticed, and recognized.
> 
> Where the one disconnect comes, is in the art/skill/science of the
> activity itself.   IE, in the 'martial art' of "Skill at archery", or
> "Skill at rapier".
> 
> Currently the Laurel is quite willing, as you said, to recognize those
> who have done great historical research into an art form, made physical
> items in that interest, displayed them, taught how they were made, etc.
> Which works great for 'physical crafted items'.  Be that research
> papers, scrolls, woodwork, knitting, etc.
> 
> For example, Dante was just raised to the ranks of Laurel for his
> historical research & teachings of specific weapon/fighting forms.
> 
> However, the 'gap' that is often trying to be addressed here.  Is
> specifically the skill at the 'Martial Art' itself.  Being Amazing, at
> the skill of fighting with a sword, or Amazing at the medieval art of
> shooting a truly medieval crossbow or bow.
> 
> Right now, it's that 'skill at martial art', that isn't being
> recognized.  The Pelicans do not recognize it, because it's an 'art',
> not a service.   The Laurel do not recognize it (though a decade ago
> now, Society stated that they should), simply, and not their fault,
> because it doesn't fit into the 'typical' mindset of the rest of the
> Laurel arts, which revolve about research & creating physical items.
> 
> Not going out and shooting 12 arrows into a 1" circle and turning around
> with a huge smile on your face :)
> 
> ...
> 
> However, this specific 'skill at a martial art' form, is recognized
> specifically & solely for Armored Rattan Combat.   While yes, you need
> (or should) have all the other characteristics of a Peer, comporting
> oneself, teaching one's art, learning historical forms of one's art.
> 
> Someone can be made a Peer, in this case a Knight, for the 'primary
> reason' of their skill at medieval bladed combat, as represented by
> rattan swords.
> 
> However, if their chosen weapon that they want to perfect their skill
> with, and their focus is that skill alone, is a Rapier.  Or is a
> bow/crossbow.  Then they currently cannot be recognized the same way.
> 
> ...
> 
> So I agree, completely with your statement, that we should be writing in
> tons of reward recommendations for archers making bows/quivers/arrows &
> doing the historical research on them.   And the same goes for people
> creating rapier jacks, making rapiers, doing historical research into
> various systems/forms ...
> 
> That doesn't change the fact, that the current systems do not allow us
> to reward someone for specifically 'skill with martial weapon other than
> rattan'.
> 
> And that, is what is currently being attempted to be 'fixed'.  In some way.
> 
> In Service & Friendship,
> Siegfried
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
> http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:52:12 -0500
> From: Jonathas <Jonathas at RedFoxDen.org>
> To: John Atkins <cogworks at triad.rr.com>
> Cc: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] fourth peerage.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAHGKb604ZQRLZL=Z1PFxaozOqduiCi6zLX7JUwELQnOHdJ3JPw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Cog, always good at lightening the mood!
> 
> Thanks for the laugh!
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:34 AM, John Atkins <cogworks at triad.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> As we all know metal conducts cold very well and His Excellency Siegfried
>> lives where it's cold.  Thus has he admitted on this list to brain freeze
>> from a metal head gasket?
>> 
>> Cog running very fast from a VERY good
>> 
>> crossbowman.................................................................
>> .hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Siegfried
>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:29 AM
>> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: Re: [Archers] fourth peerage.
>> 
>> Well written Baron Colum, and:
>> 
>>>  And if you think I have done some stuff you should read Siegfrieds
>>> crossbow efforts in the artistic realm,
>> 
>> You honor me more than I deserve.  I just wish that modern life & putting
>> this 'thing on my head' hadn't stolen more time from me to allow me to
>> continue my research as heavily as I was a few years ago.
>> 
>> Soon I hope, soon.
>> 
>> But thank you.  *blushes*
>> 
>> Siegfried
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
>> http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archers mailing list
>> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archers mailing list
>> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
>> 
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> End of Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 28
> ****************************************

Regards,

Jamie Frailey
jamie at designbyfive.com

c. 443.834.8141
p. 443.615.7264

225 East Redwood Street, 3rd Floor
Baltimore, MD 21202

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