[Archers] Atl Atl Rules

Mon Dec 10 07:23:59 PST 2012

I don't personally do atl atl, but we have a lot of them at Wolfhou these days.  We had 5 or 6 people throwing atl atl yesterday.  Allen has a couple old excelsior bales set up a few feet next to the normal targets and if we only have a couple people throwing they throw on the same line as the rest of us, we just place them all at the end of the line facing the bales.  We don't have an actual target face on the bales, they just usually aim for center mass, and when we're doing royals they change distance with us, though there are probably only two people who can hit the target from 40 yards.  Allen's got another pile of old excelsior bales next to the thrown weapons targets, which is where the atl atl throwers were throwing yesterday, but they only had about 20 yards to work with.

I think Siegfried has a good idea with setting the royal round atl atl target 10 yards closer to the line; this would make it more likely that the throwers could actually score, would make it safer for the shooters' arrows, and allow everyone to move together.

Sanada Katsumi

________________________________
 From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Archers] Atl Atl Rules

My own 2 cents.   I agree that the current rules are definitely 'fraught
with Archery Mentality'.   And I speak as someone who bought an Atl Atl
and really enjoys using it :)

There are actually a number of folks in my Barony that like using them.

But here's my own POV / Catch-22 / Other side of the coin:

I believe that moving AtlAtl onto it's own set of distances -- Will
actually serve to dissuade it more than encourage it.   Speaking of the
practices which I have attended nearby - Practices are usually set up
with a single set of targets, and the bulk of archers move
forward/backward to different distances as a whole.

Given this, Having Atl Atl's use a set of ranges that precludes this
(Such as 10/15/20), means that they must me set up on another range, and
have their own marshal to run.   This wouldn't be a problem if we had
even 30% of the archers doing AtlAtl perhaps, as well as enough room at
all the ranges.  But given that currently it's still typically less than
that, and many ranges can't support multiple multiple stations running
concurrently.

Which means that to run an AtlAtl in this way, with different distances,
would require the AtlAtl throwers to go first, then everyone backs up so
that the bows/crossbows shoot, rinse/repeat.   It's a situation that
when I've seen done, has actually frustrated the AtlAtl throwers as much
as archers.  Since the AtlAtl throwers know that everyone is waiting on
them.

To that end, I would posit that keeping the ranges the same (or almost,
read on), would allow for a more inclusive environment for AtlAtl's.
Allowing them to join the forwards/backwards movement of a typical
archery practice as a whole.

Therefore, the distances would need to stay 20/30/40 ... OR, actually,
there's an alternative.   The atlatl distances could be set to 10/20/30
quite easily.   This allows for a separate AtlAtl target to be setup
10yds closer to the shooting line than the archery targets.  Yet now the
AtlAtl's and Archery can shoot together, each at their own target.

To that end, and given that that distances will still be long for an
AtlAtl.  I'd suggest that we change the target face as well.   Most
modern AtlAtl organizations specifically use the 120cm FITA face (4ft
diameter), instead of the much smaller 60cm.  This allows for launching
at the longer distances.   It's rather easy to make a simple 4'x4'
target out of a single sheet of pink foam cut in half, sandwiched
between two layers of cardboard.   Which would work great for a
dedicated AtlAtl target.

This all matches some of the information you can find online, such as here:
http://raysatlatls.com/2010/06/more-on-atlatl-targets/
and here:
http://www.worldatlatl.org/ISAC.html
and here:
http://www.worldatlatl.org/Articles/TakochCD/Target%20backing.pdf

(NOTE: The World AtlAtl actually has their own target, with more
progressive rings, and 108cm instead of 120cm.  But the FITA 120 is much
easier to find/buy)

Beyond that, I would suggest that AtlAtl's be allowed just as many
atlatl's to toss, as archers shoot.  It really doesn't take any longer
to throw an atlatl than it does to shoot an arrow.

... Summary ...

* Move AtlAtl's onto a FITA 120cm target, to match others.
* Allow AtlAtl's 6 tosses per end, just like archers.
* Set targets at either 20/30/40 for identical ranges.
  Or 10/20/30 for complementary ones.
* Keep scoring therefore the same as archery.

In Service,
Siegfried

On 12/9/12 8:44 PM, Jay Nardone wrote:
> Good evening everyone, I know I should have my head examined but I would
> be scared of what they find! If you ever have seen me attempt an Atl Atl
> you would know they aren’t my favorite but…..Last year or so I know
> Lorelei got the ball rolling with trying to establish some Royal Round
> rules for Atl Atl and I think it is that time once again. We need to
> complete the discussion and planning so we can move forward with this
> and get something in place governing Atl Atl in our Kingdom.  So let’s
> start the discussions once again, and please just keep in mind this is a
> discussion and one’s opinion is not any better than another’s.  When we
> get close to a final solution I will officiate the vote to move forward.
> I went back in my archives and this seems to be the last email I had on
> the subject, it came from Lord Jonathan:
> 
>  
> 
> I would like to add my thoughts to the debate.
> 
>  
> 
> The current Atlantian rules for Atlatl are based on an archery mind set.
> 
> People who can only count to 5, and need colors to help!  In the mundane
> world of Atlatl hurlers, they can count to 10; however, they have to
> start at 6.  Don't ask where 1 through 5 went.  But at least they can do
> it in black and white.  Please see the attached image of their official
> atlatl target.  The target looks to be 100cm in diameter.
> 
> My research has uncovered the distances at which they throw and the
> number of darts at each distance vary somewhat by club.  The closest is
> 
> 6 meters and the furthest is 25 meters.  The total number of darts in an
> official round appears to be 10, either two stations of 5 darts each, or
> 
> 5 stations with 2 darts each.
> 
> The current Atlantian throwing distances are 20, 30 and 40 yards.  Since
> we in the SCA try to have fun, anything past 20 yards for a 60sm target
> does not meet that standard.
> 
> I propose the following:
> 
> Target:  standard Royal Round 60cm 5 color target.
> 
> Distances:  10 yards, 15 yards, and 20 yards Number of darts at each
> distance: 3 Highest possible score is 45.
> 
>  
> 
> Jonathan
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> In Service,
> 
>  
> 
> Janyn
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
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